Germany: No Peace Treaty After 60 Years

[Eriugena]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

I could say the same to you about the civilians "murdered" through bombing raids here or the British troops murdered by the SS in 1940, bombing Dresden wasnt exactly pleasant i agree but theirs nothing to gain by keep bringing it up apart from harming Anglo-German relations and thats what fell apart bringing us into ANOTHER war.

Harris got a sir title for his war effort and that alone, just like an American trooper who might have killed civilians in Iraq will still get praise for his war effort when returning home.

You say "it was war", but that is a fairly meaningless statement as it stands; as if that explains everything. How did this war come about? It came about chiefly through the long-term policy of some sections of the British elite to destroy Germany. Why was Britain committed by treaty only to come to Poland's assitance if invaded by Germany? If the Soviets invaded - as they did - the British would not have come to their aid. Instead Chruchill and Roosevelt handed over half of Europe to Bolshevik tyrrany for forty years.

Why did the British change their position over Poland? The recovery of the Sudentenland differed in no essential way from the German invasion of Poland which was for the recovery of territories removed by Versailles. What were the British playing at?

Dresden is emblematic because the British and Americans fire-bombed just about every German city of any significance, often more than once. It is ridiculous to equate German bombings with allied raids - the allies pursued a deliberate policy of bombing civilians, the Germans did not, and this is reflected in the comparative casualities; huge on the German side, small on the British.

You speak about harming UK-German relations - but this is pure cant. How can there be meaningful relations when a state of war still technically exists, and Britain continues to profit from such gross calumnies like the Holocaust lie and maintains an army of occupation in Germany?

[Biggles]

We are ?

Crap are go get myself an AK and are be over in a few hours to shoot you !.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Reinhold Elstner

You say "it was war", but that is a fairly meaningless statement as it stands; as if that explains everything. How did this war come about? It came about chiefly through the long-term policy of some sections of the British elite to destroy Germany. Why was Britain committed by treaty only to come to Poland's assitance if invaded by Germany? If the Soviets invaded - as they did - the British would not have come to their aid.
Why did the British change their position over Poland? The recovery of the Sudentenland differed in no essential way from the German invasion of Poland which was for the recovery of territories removed by Versailles. What wre the British playing at?
Dresden is emblematic because the British and Americans fire-bombed jst about every German city of any significance, often more than once. It is ridiculous to equate German bombings with allied raids - the allies pursued a deliberate policy of bombing civilians, the Germans did not, and this is eflected in the comparative casualities.
You speak about harming UK-German relations - but this is pure cant. How can there be meaningful relations when a state of war still technically exists, and Britain continues to profit from such gross calumnies like the Holocaust lie and maintains an army of occupation in Germany?

V-1s ? V-2s ?

Hey my Grandmas fiancee was killed by a German bomber so dont go saying the Germans never meant to bomb Britains cities.

[Eriugena]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

V-1s ? V-2s ?

Hey my Grandmas fiancee was killed by a German bomber so dont go saying the Germans never meant to bomb Britains cities.

"Collateral damage" as Blair would put it.
The Luftwaffe bombed a small area of Dublin by mistake and people died, doesn't mean they had a policy of killing Irish civilians.
There was no German policy of bombing civilians, the British had just such a policy, that is the difference.

[Zyklop]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

We are ?

Crap are go get myself an AK and are be over in a few hours to shoot you !.

Could you please write in proper English? It isn´t my native language and I hardly can make sense out of this.

V-1s ? V-2s ?

Do you know what the V stands for?

[Eriugena]

These two articles of the UN Charter are well-worth a close read. Basically the allied powers can carry out military actions against Germany/Japan/Italy and the other axis powers at will. Of course the real target of this is Germany. In the absence of a constitution for Germany and no peace treaty officially ending the war, WWII is technically still on!

-----

Those two articles.

Article 53
The Security Council shall, where appropriate, utilize such regional arrangements or agencies for enforcement action under its authority. But no enforcement action shall be taken under regional arrangements or by regional agencies without the authorization of the Security Council, with the exception of measures against any enemy state, as defined in paragraph 2 of this Article, provided for pursuant to Article 107 or in regional arrangements directed against renewal of aggressive policy on the part of any such state, until such time as the Organization may, on request of the Governments concerned, be charged with the responsibility for preventing further aggression by such a state.
The term enemy state as used in paragraph 1 of this Article applies to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory of the present Charter.

Article 107
Nothing in the present Charter shall invalidate or preclude action, in relation to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the Governments having responsibility for such action.

[Biggles]

Well goodness lets get killing each other again.

[Zyklop]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

Well goodness lets get killing each other again.

If you don´t have anything relevant to say about the occupation of Germany then please don´t troll around in this thread.

[Biggles]

Well considering your having a go at foreign troops including British ones in your country and me being British i think i have a right to say something Ja ?.

[Zyklop]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

Well considering your having a go at foreign troops including British ones in your country and me being British i think i have a right to say something Ja ?.

True, but I didn´t create this thread in a highbrow section to get one-lined off-topic opinions.

[Biggles]

It was a logical reply i thought, hes saying WW2 isnt over so i just said why arent we killing each other ?.

[Zyklop]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

It was a logical reply i thought, hes saying WW2 isnt over so i just said why arent we killing each other ?.

A war isn´t over as long as there is no peace treaty. Is this so hard to understand? The borders of 1937 are still existant according to international law.

[Biggles]

What do you think should be done then ?.

[Eriugena]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

What do you think should be done then ?.

That's a very difficult question. One of the main obstacles in the way of normalising the situation is the fog of lies that surround WWII and indeed the whole Third Reich period. Not only that, but the official version of WWII is enforced by law in many countries, especially Germany. You can go to prison in Germany and France for questioning the Nuremberg version of events, and Blair wants to introduce similar laws in Britain.

This is not hard to understand because the post-war world order claims its legitimacy on destroying evil, i.e. the Nazis. The enormous death and dstruction of WWII could only be justified - if at all - on the understanding that it was a crusade against evil. Now if it turns out that the Nazis weren't the very incarnation of evil after all, then the moral basis for the present world order disintegrates, especially when it becomes clear the role that the saintly allies played in brining that war about.

To get some perspective on this, compare the war against Germany with the war against Iraq. There are some very interesting parallels which we can discuss later, except to say at this point that it is clear to all that this war has been launched and fought on the basis of a complete tapestry of lies and premeditation.

[Biggles]

I agree, im fed up with the continuous evil nazi media etc and the glorifying of the allies, but the fact remains im British and if we had lost i either wouldnt be here or id be speaking German probably, ive actually got a great deal of respect for the German army of WW2.

I also didnt know Blair is trying to bring that law in .

[Zyklop]

@Reinhold
Well said, although be aware that some otherwise highly intelligent people here still blame Germany´s alleged Drang nach Osten for the outbreak of WW2 and the political and cultural degeneration of Europe afterwards.

[Zyklop]

@Biggles
That´s quite a superficial approach. You surely wouldn´t speak German. A quote by Sir Hartley Shawcross, the British chief-accuser in Nuerenberg:

Hitler and the German people didn´t want this war. We didn´t answer Hitler´s various petitions for peace. Now we have to admit that he was right. Instead of a cooperation with Germany, which he had offered us, now stands the gigantic, imperialistic might of the Sovjets. I feel ashamed to see how the same intentions which we accused Hitler of now are pursued under a different name.

[Eriugena]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

I agree, im fed up with the continuous evil nazi media etc and the glorifying of the allies, but the fact remains im British and if we had lost i either wouldnt be here or id be speaking German probably, ive actually got a great deal of respect for the German army of WW2.

That you are British should make you more concerned to find out the truth about the past. After all, if the war was, as I have suggested, cooked up by certain factions within the British elite as well as others, then all your fellow countrymen and women who died, did so under the influence of a lie, just as all those British soldiers who have died in Iraq, died for a lie. As it is it fills me with outrage, if I were British I would be in a fury.

I also didnt know Blair is trying to bring that law in .

Oh yes, all that "hate speech" and "Holocaust denial" he wants to bring in.

[Eriugena]

Originally Posted by Zyklop

@Reinhold
Well said, although be aware that some otherwise highly intelligent people here still blame Germany´s alleged Drang nach Osten for the outbreak of WW2 and the political and cultural degeneration of Europe afterwards.

Indeed, I am pretty up to speed with the situation in the BRD or Absurdistan as some revisionist historians call it. Everything from people being arrested for waving to the man who was arrested for teaching his dog to give the Hitler Gruss!
The fact of the matter is that Germany saved Europe from Bolshevism before idiots like Churchill and Roosevelt gave it to Stalin.

[Biggles]

Zyklop i suppose "Operation Sealion" against Britain and the actual invasion of half of Europe was just an accident then.

Elstner yes if you have any more info on this i would like it.