Are you in favour of the creation an European Army?

[Endovelicus]

Are you in favour of an European Army?

[Theobald]

Not an European army, but why not some sort of European NATO; at least between Western European countries (France, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Croatia, ...) since I think Russia don't want to have its army under a foreign rule. Our armies need some cooperation, because they aren't (yet) powerful enough against our common enemies (mostly the USA).

This already exists between French and German armies (Brigade Franco-Allemande / Deutsch-Franzosische Brigade) : more than 5,000 French and German soldiers in Müllheim, Donaueschingen and Immendingen (Bade-Wurtemberg) are under common Franco-German rule. And don't forget Eurocorps (France, Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium and Spain), but under NATO's rule. I like its flag though :

[newenstad]

The European Force Althea (Peacekeeping in Bosnia Herzegowina) is a kind of an European Army under EU rule.

[Heretik]

Originally Posted by newenstad

The European Force Althea (Peacekeeping in Bosnia Herzegowina) is a kind of an European Army under EU rule.

Peacekeeping in Bosnia?
If somebody there wants a war those morons won't be able to do anything. As those UNPROFOR asshole didn't do anything when attrocities happened in Srebrenica.

International armies are a joke.

[newenstad]

Althea was called the SFOR, the Stabilization Force. When Srebrenica was, no one of SFOR or Althea was there.

What should they do? Shoot em?

It´s there job helping the police and the army in Bosnia to prevent further conflicts.

[Heretik]

I think I know what SFOR stands for, that's why I said UNPROFOR not SFOR, KFOR or IFOR (those three there were in ex - yugoslavia contries).

What should they do??? Prevent that atrocity and many more and not just be the watchers of them.

Their job is to help but they don't do anything except annoying the locals. I'll recommend you a book tomorrow (I don't know the exact title in english) if you like to read and you'll see what have those international peace forces do in Bosnia during the war.

[newenstad]

I know alll differnt kinds of the UN missions all over the world (a map was hanging for more than years next to my bed) but of course i´ll read the book.

[Heretik]

Originally Posted by newenstad

I know alll differnt kinds of the UN missions all over the world (a map was hanging for more than years next to my bed) but of course i´ll read the book.

So you know that during the war, in Bosnia UNPROFOR - "blue helmets" had a peace role. And they haven't done anything not to say that they didn't bring peace!

[newenstad]

have you ever seen the video of Cyprus when the young Greek was shot down by a turkish soldier? The bluehelmets have to go between the Greeks and the Turkish just with some kind of plastic shield. The whole area was burning, everyone was throwing everything,...


but they weren´t allowed to use anything to prevent further chaos like tear gas or something else.

when the first bluehelmet attacks a person from ethnic a or b or c, i think you can imagine.
they just can show that they are there, sometimes helping the police with checkpoints, crowd control and so on...

if there would be peace when you send ~5000 people in a region with civil war or other crises, every country would has its own Stabilization Force.

Peace.Freedom.Althea

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Oh hell yes!!!! Then their would be no reason for American bases there. You guys would like that and we wouldn't have to support another (yet another) army of occupation.

[Cristoforo]

I certainly cannot be accused of being pan-europeanist but we definitely need a Euro-wide army, especially as a disincentive for non-Europeans to invade small european countries such as, well, Malta


Of course, this does not mean that each country cannot have its own army. A good way to create this army would be that of transfering say 35% of each countries' military resources under the command of 25 generals (from 25 different countries) taking care of various aspects of the European security so that each country will feel some control of the whole European army.

We have to face the reality that military-wise, Europe sucks when compared to the US, China or Russia. Although we do have advanced technology, we don't have enough manpower and we definitely don't have enough co-ordination should some nasty, say Arab country, invade, say, Malta (or Turkey on Cyprus - Russia on Estonia etc).

As usual, all that is done should be done respecting the total sovereignity of each state. Any nation can reject to get in such an arrangement but then cannot expect to be helped in case of need.

In this age, Europe needs a harder, tougher shell to protect itself.

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Cristoforo

we definitely don't have enough co-ordination should some nasty, say Arab country, invade, say, Malta (or Turkey on Cyprus - Russia on Estonia etc).

Hey, anyway France has nuclear weapons, so if a non-European country tries to invade an EU-country, we have to defend it (though I don't know whether this obligation is already existing or if it is in the future Constitution).

Oh hell yes!!!! Then their would be no reason for American bases there. You guys would like that and we wouldn't have to support another (yet another) army of occupation.

We are in advance, we expelled your army - and partially left NATO - in 1966.

[Prussian]

Originally Posted by Katera

International armies are a joke.

They're just Keeping up appearances, Public relations exercise.

[Green Nationalist]

I voted no becaus it would compromise Irish nuetrality

[Awar]

How about an "I don't know" option

[Laocoon]

Are we talking about an European Army (a real army with guns that soldiers are allowed to use) or a useless "peacekeeper" smurfs Army (1984 G.Orwell "War is peace")?

Why not an European Legion (inspired by french legion)?

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Look, the Europeans built a real, high tech jet fighter, the Eurofighter. This aircraft is not designed for peacekeeping, it is the real deal. Likewise, nobody would say the Russian Army is a peacekeeper force.

You guys know that if Europe was measued as one economy, it would be the number one economy in the world. Since you have the number one economy, you really need a force to protect it. You have the input of the Russians for both manpower and weapons. You have the high-tech input of Western European countries. You already have the organization in NATO. You really need a counterbalance to the USA and to prevent the USA from running amok which it is doing right now. Look guys, I am not suggesting that we be enemies, all I am saying is that for your own interest, you need to stop sitting down and stand up and let everyone see how big you are. That is all that is necessary on so many levels and it is the traditional European role in world power.

[Ferrum]

Originally Posted by Cristoforo

I certainly cannot be accused of being pan-europeanist but we definitely need a Euro-wide army, especially as a disincentive for non-Europeans to invade small european countries such as, well, Malta


Of course, this does not mean that each country cannot have its own army. A good way to create this army would be that of transfering say 35% of each countries' military resources under the command of 25 generals (from 25 different countries) taking care of various aspects of the European security so that each country will feel some control of the whole European army.

I totally agree with you, but do you really think that those 25 generals will collaborate? I mean they are from different countries, different tactics, different communication systems and all. I do wish they do but I do have my doubts.

I would be in favour of a European ‘NATO’ sort of thing. My intention is that the troops remain under national command until the need arises.

What I hate is the fact that many Maltese think that Malta’s neutrality is equal to no possible future attack by another country. Europe does need a strong allied military force, especially to keep illegal immigration in check, which is a plague here. Also countries like N. Korea and China are becoming more hostile by the minute. Missile-shield programmes against ICBMs and the sort are practically non-existent in Europe, as far as I know, and barely anything is being done to stall the threat of a nuclear attack.

Oh btw, I’m new here Congratulations for the forum, admin and mods, very well kept! Being Maltese you can guess who invited me