About Spain's election

[Weltschmerz]

Maybe we can have a general discussion, if there are things to say. I will share something I saw on TV.

There was a reportage on swedish "national" TV about Spain's upcoming election, with a certain focus on homosexual rights. They interviewed one male homosexual couple - they were even married - and one lesbian couple, and the lesbians were also going to have a child by some kind of new technique. One of the men said that they were very content with Zapatero.

Then the reportage showed pictures from a Catholic mass, and the voiceover accused the Catholic church of saying to people that they should vote for the right wing. But I could ascertain that they had really not said exactly that (?), but they just pointed out what the socialists have done.

Then a Catholic priest was interviewed, who said that the option for gay marriage should be withdrawn, and that there are treatments to help people get over any homosexual practice.

I just thought it might be interesting to share.

[Savorgnan]

Well, in our "progressive" and "liberal" societies, Progressism and Liberalism are no longer considered as opinions or ideologies. They are seen as neutral and natural states of being, like 2 + 2 = 4, like the truth. So any dissonant note is seen as something unnatural and monstruous, like this Catholic priest's opinion.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Gnist

They interviewed one male homosexual couple - they were even married

Maybe one of the possible ways to combat the abomination of the so-called homosexual "marriage" would be to entirely ignore the very institution of the civil marriage. Because once a thing like homosexual "marriage" was erected to the same level as the normal marriage in the sphere of the civil marital law, the civil marriage in itself morally lost any value. So people who care about their decency maybe ought to only marry in the Church and not consider civil marriage as marriage at all. At least in my opinion, having instituted such thing as "homosexual marriage" the state (not just Spain, but any country who allowed that) turned the civil marital contract into a totally worthless paper. It would be morally more preferable to live in a "wild" marriage, with children born out of wedlock, than to live in a matrimony sanctioned by a paper which does not discriminate between marriage proper and the "community" of two buggers or lesbians living together.

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Maybe one of the possible ways to combat the abomination of the so-called homosexual "marriage" would be to entirely ignore the very institution of the civil marriage.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Marulus

Because once a thing like homosexual "marriage" was erected to the same level as the normal marriage in the sphere of the civil marital law, the civil marriage in itself morally lost any value.

I'm glad that you didn't use the revulting politically correct form of "heterosexual marriage".

[Menydh]

Now, what the Catholic Church (the Episcopal Conference, in fact) has said is that Catholics should give their vote to parties that respect their principles as Catholics. Considering the on-going open hostility and threats of the Socialist Government (be it direct or through gangsters) against the Church in these four years, I think that the bishops have been extremely moderated.

What's most significant is that the Socialists have not said a word about the open support of the leader of the Muslims in Spain (Junta Islámica), who has actually demanded Muslims to support and to vote for parties that favour Islam, like PSOE (Socialists) and IU/EU (Communists).

It should not be forgotten that this Socialist central government as well as the Socialist autonomous government in Catalonia, are in office with the support of ERC (the independentist Republican Left of Catalonia) and IU/EU (the Communists). This is exactly the coalition that brought about the persecutions that provoked the Spanish Civil War in 1936.

So that things are a little more clear, we are talking of: burning of convents and churches, rape, torture and assassination of nuns and priests and even of their corpses after being dead, or of believers, detention and shot-in-the-back of elected politicians, and so on.

Gnist, if you are trying to understand what's going on in Spain, I suggest that you look into what's called "the myth of the two spains" (or without "the myth".. in fact I don't know why some people would call it "a myth"). But be warned that it goes back well beyond the years mentioned.

Little Spaniard who is coming
Into the world, God helps you.
One of the Two Spains
Will freeze your heart.

A rough translation of the verses of Antonio Machado. He was in the Republican side, while his brother Manuel Machado, also a poet, was in the National side. (It should be noticed that Antonio Machado was not a Socialist like the Socialists pretend, but a Liberal.)

This division is the story of many families in Spain. Many. Probably more than not. There is also a "Third Spain", which is often silenced.

If you want to try to understand our idiosincracy, I wish you good luck with it.


p.s. The so-called "Civil War" (aka "National Crusade", officially acknowledged as such by The Church) is but one of many civil wars in Spain, throughout history.

[Menydh]

By the way, with regards to the "civil war mongering" character that you might have concluded from the above, you might also remember the question about a "Germanic" ethnic influence in Spain, through the Visigoths in this thread: The Spanish, Celts and Germans

which I denied as "Germanic" but admitted a "Gothic" heritage (as distinctive from the way too generic "Germanic").

Well, all historians identify what is known in Latin as the morbus Gothorum, which literally translates as "the disease of the Goths". Basically the whole Visigothic period was one of regicides leading to civil wars. Including the so-called "Islamic invasion" of 711 AD which was in fact yet another civil war between two factions to gain the throne, with the help of a foreign army (they had engaged foreign help before, the Byzantines... and the Franks which is even more outrageous than the Muslims).

So there you have all room for speculation.

[Weltschmerz]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

It should not be forgotten that this Socialist central government as well as the Socialist autonomous government in Catalonia, are in office with the support of ERC (the independentist Republican Left of Catalonia) and IU/EU (the Communists). This is exactly the coalition that brought about the persecutions that provoked the Spanish Civil War in 1936.

So that things are a little more clear, we are talking of: burning of convents and churches, rape, torture and assassination of nuns and priests and even of their corpses after being dead, or of believers, detention and shot-in-the-back of elected politicians, and so on.

It's the upside down world where the ridiculous concept of "gay rights" is more important than another man's life.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

So that things are a little more clear, we are talking of: burning of convents and churches, rape, torture and assassination of nuns and priests and even of their corpses after being dead, or of believers, detention and shot-in-the-back of elected politicians, and so on.

Do you think that the victims would allow that to happen today without yielding resistance?

[Uri]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

So that things are a little more clear, we are talking of: burning of convents and churches, rape, torture and assassination of nuns and priests and even of their corpses after being dead, or of believers, detention and shot-in-the-back of elected politicians, and so on.

That things will no happen anymore, as most of the Spanish society is far from regarding the Church as a menace or as an allied. Naturally, it should be a respect to the Church and his values, but I think that this discussion (the eterne problem between Church and State) don't interest anymore the vast majority of spaniards.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

This division is the story of many families in Spain. Many. Probably more than not. There is also a "Third Spain", which is often silenced.

If you want to try to understand our idiosincracy, I wish you good luck with it.

I agree completely with this opinion.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Uri

That things will no happen anymore, as most of the Spanish society is far from regarding the Church as a menace or as an allied. Naturally, it should be a respect to the Church and his values, but I think that this discussion (the eterne problem between Church and State) don't interest anymore the vast majority of spaniards.

Who is talking of the "vast majority"? Was it then any "vast majority"?

You've probably missed the attempted assault of the Archbishopric of Barcelona, only a couple of years ago, by a mix gang of homosexuals, Socialist and independentist "youth".

Just to mention one thing.

Originally Posted by Marulus

Do you think that the victims would allow that to happen today without yielding resistance?

You mean a rising? The González term focused on dismantling the army. Aznar gave it the back stab when he profesionalized it.

Not that the 1936 rising was entirely militar. In fact there were more army units in the Republican side, than in the National side.

[Weltschmerz]

Socialists win Spain election

By Jane Barrett in Madrid
March 10, 2008 08:09am



SPAIN'S governing Socialist Party won the election by an increased margin, but just short of an absolute majority, according to early official results.

With 33.1 per cent of the vote counted, the Socialist party was projected to win 170 seats in the 350-seat lower house. The conservative Popular Party, which had trailed in every opinion poll before the election, was on 150 seats.

More: Socialists win Spain election | NEWS.com.au

[Menydh]

Actually, the Socialists have won 169 seats, not 170. Seven seats short of being able to form a government without support.

That support may come in the exact number from ERC (Catalan Republican Left, 3 seats), IU (United Left, Communists, 2 seats), and BNG (Galician Nationalist Bloc, 2 seats). The support won't come without substantious deals offered to the Catalan and Galician Left independentists. IU might resent having lost a large support to the Socialists, in these elections.

The Liberals (not Conservatives) have won 154 seats.