Kosovo independence created inside NATO

[Crvena zvezda]

Kosovo independence created inside NATO"
7 March 2008

No-one would have taken Kosovo independence declaration seriously were it a unilateral act, says Massimo D’Alema.

Kosovo independence “was not born out of a unilateral initiative by the Kosovo people, but came from within NATO. Were it a matter of a unilateral act, no-one would have taken the declaration of independence into consideration,” said the Italian foreign minister in the margins of the NATO summit in Brussels.

D’Alema said that that was the reason Italy opposed Abkhazia’s demands for independence from Georgia, reported Italian media.

Kosovo is not a precedent on the basis of which other territories can declare independence unilaterally, the minister said, adding that Kosovo was a sui generis case, as it was an international protectorate over which Serbia had not had sovereignty since 1999.

[Dux]

In my heart I will never accept Kosovo as an Albanian property, nor Thrace, Cyprus or Anatolia as Osmanli brothels. It makes me sick.

[Crvena zvezda]

The only good thing about this statement is it's at least honest. I know a few years ago this same minister stated in an interview that it wasn't Milosevic or Serbia preventing a peaceful solution to the Kosovo crisis but the American sponosred regime in Montenegro.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

The only good thing about this statement is it's at least honest. I know a few years ago this same minister stated in an interview that it wasn't Milosevic or Serbia preventing a peaceful solution to the Kosovo crisis but the American sponosred regime in Montenegro.

D'Alema must be sick to tell the truth or so sure of the power of his masters that he can say it openly.

He is an ex-communist turned staunch natoist ... still using the same stone faced hypocrisy learned from soviets to the benefit of his new puppeteers.

[stribbor]

NATO is still the only force which can stop conflicts in the Balkans. And Albanians are still the biggest problem of them. If we try to see how many conflicts can emerge today in Balkans, I would tell about eight:
1. Greece and Turkey in the Aegean about islands and borders
2. Bulgaria and Turkey regarding discrimination of 800.000 Turks in Bulgaria and 120.000 Turkish refugees which fled to Turkey during communist regime
3. Romania and Moldavia have problems regarding will of ethnic Romanians in Moldavia to merge with Romania, but they are facing secession in Transnistria
4. Kosovo
5. Republic of Srpska
6. Disputes between Croatia and Slovenia
7. Macedonian problem with Bulgaria and Greece
8. Macedonian internal problem with Albanians
9. Greek minority in Albania and Albanian minority in Greece (Epirus)
I can't imagine peaceful Balkan without NATO. What I can imagine is power sharing in Kosovo between Albanians and Serbs. And who ever says they can't be independent is wrong. In Yugoslav Constitution in 1974 Kosovo and Vojvodina were granted status as Autonomous Province but they had a exactly same vote in federation matters which was in favor of biggest republic. So, they had all prerequisites for independence but their status was abolished by Milosevic. And his tactics brought to this what we have today. But, I agree, it couldn't be done without NATO. But, without NATO we would have bloodshed still going on.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by stribbor

If we try to see how many conflicts can emerge today in Balkans, I would tell about eight:

...

6. Disputes between Croatia and Slovenia

LOL...

I hope this is a joke.

Originally Posted by stribbor

I can't imagine peaceful Balkan without NATO.

Really? Then it would be the best for all countries of the area to abolish themselves and become protectorates of NATO.

Let us abolsih Croatia as independent country and become 51st state of the USA.

Originally Posted by stribbor

In Yugoslav Constitution in 1974 Kosovo and Vojvodina were granted status as Autonomous Province but they had a exactly same vote in federation matters which was in favor of biggest republic.

There is no Yugolsvia any more. What was written in some consitution in 1974 is irrelevant today.

Originally Posted by stribbor

But, I agree, it couldn't be done without NATO. But, without NATO we would have bloodshed still going on.

If you adore NATO so much, enlist and go to Afghanistan to fight for those bloodsuckers. You are being terribly racist by saying that the peoples of South Slavic area would be killing each other for the eternity, were NATO not present in this area. How can you possibly know that? The best way to avoid conflicts is that every relevant country of the area have respectable armed forces, so that a potential foe be deterred in that manner.

NATO means loss of sovereignity and fighting for America's interests abroad. My stomach churns at "Croatian soldiers in Afghanistan"-thing. There is no need for that. Why did we fight for independence then in the first place?

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by stribbor

NATO is still the only force which can stop conflicts in the Balkans. And Albanians are still the biggest problem of them. If we try to see how many conflicts can emerge today in Balkans, I would tell about eight:

1. Greece and Turkey in the Aegean about islands and borders

This one is a really serious conflict.

2. Bulgaria and Turkey regarding discrimination of 800.000 Turks in Bulgaria and 120.000 Turkish refugees which fled to Turkey during communist regime

Lol. This isn't even a dispute. Turks are not discriminated and Turks have participated in every single Bulgarian government since communism fell in 1989. Not only that but every Turk who fled to Bulgaria during communism has had the right to return (about 50% have returned). Not only that but the discrimination fo Turks is gorssly exagerrated and if it is institutionalized then Turks are helping propagate it especially since Turks are over represented in Bulgarian government.

3. Romania and Moldavia have problems regarding will of ethnic Romanians in Moldavia to merge with Romania, but they are facing secession in Transnistria

Lol. And there is no indication there would be a war between Moldova and Romania. There also is no indication of war between Moldova and seperatist Transnistria. Lastly, there is also no indication that the Moldovans (i.e. Romanains in Moldova) have any strong desire to join Romania.

4. Kosovo

Lol. NATO is the source of troubles in Kosovo. It used false pretenses to attack Kosovo and everything it has done in Kosovo is in violation of international law.

5. Republic of Srpska

Lol. there want be a conflict over RS, especially since the largest Serb party (the SNSD) has said that they would only make moves toward independence if Muslims and the Croat sell-outs in the SDP try to abolish RS or if Bosnia recognizes Kosovo.

6. Disputes between Croatia and Slovenia

Your kidding. This is by far the stuppidest thing you've mentioned. Their is no indication of any possible war over this issue. At most the only things that will happen is fishing disputes between Croat police and Slovenian fishers entering Croatian waters.

7. Macedonian problem with Bulgaria and Greece

This is stupid. Why would Greece invade FYROM, especially since Greece already has a good diplomatic strategy to deal with them.

Same thing with Bulgaria. There is no indication that Bulgaria would invade FYROM. No indication ever existed in the 90s.

8. Macedonian internal problem with Albanians

Ok. This is another potentioally serious conflict. And one which is made worst by NATO. During the 2001 conflict NATO actively armed Albanians and undermined the military and government in FYROM.

9. Greek minority in Albania and Albanian minority in Greece (Epirus)

The Greek minority is unlikely to start a war with Albania. If they were then they're about 20 years late.

The Albanian minority is non-existant in Greece. They are nothing more then histroically revisionist gastarbeiters who Greece has shown to be willing to extradite in the past. And there is nothing to indicate that Greece won't extradite them if they start forming paramilitary groups.

I can't imagine peaceful Balkan without NATO.

Yet almost everyone of the conflicts you've mentioned only become worst once NATO get's involved.

What I can imagine is power sharing in Kosovo between Albanians and Serbs.

Never going to happen. Albanians had no interest in power sharing during Tito's rule. They have no interest now. And why should they power share when demographics are on their side, NATO let's them do what ever they want and they number 90% of the population or so.

And why would Serbs want to share power with criminals like Thaci. You might as well be asking Bosniaks to share power with Serbian paramilitaries.

And who ever says they can't be independent is wrong. In Yugoslav Constitution in 1974 Kosovo and Vojvodina were granted status as Autonomous Province but they had a exactly same vote in federation matters which was in favor of biggest republic. So, they had all prerequisites for independence but their status was abolished by Milosevic.

So many thing wrong with your analogy:
- As an Autonomous Province they were specifically mentioned as being part of Serbia. The constitution only granted the right to independence to nations and rpeublics. Vojvodina and Kosovo were not nations or rpeublics.
- The voting arrangement was not in the favour of the biggest Republic, Serbia. Because both would regularly vote against Serbian interests and would also veto internal Serbian matters.

And his tactics brought to this what we have today. But, I agree, it couldn't be done without NATO. But, without NATO we would have bloodshed still going on.

Without NATO, the problem of Albanians in Kosovo and FYROM would have been solved in the early 2000's. NATO tactics led to thje situation today where international law has no relevance today where NATO disrtegarded international law to bomb Serbia and to give it independence. NATO is the ones who allowed the Albanian paramilitaries to spread into southern Serbia and FYROM, NATO are the ones who heklped the Albanians expell over 250,000+ non-Albanians.

All Milosevic did in Kosovo was fight a paramilitary grtoups that the U.S. it's self classified as terrorists. Milosevic's tactics lead to what, a tmost 4,000 dead. While NATO lied of deaths over 100,000. The truth is that military actions in Kosovo had everything to do with securing a U.S. base to secure the AMBO pipeline.

[stribbor]

I have to inform you that my views previously known as stribbor were misused and in this way I protest against it. I thought this was a very welcomed European forum about nationalism and ethnicity which is my professional field.

Moderators seems to prevent my free thinking, although it doesn't coincide with forum regulations. At the same time, offending word which I saw are still valid.

"While we admit discussion from other peoples even aliens to Europe, we do not welcome the introduction and the spread of agendas of primitivistic racism, be it in the form of egalitarianist racial or sub-racial supremacism, or of the alo egalitarianist promotion of ethnic disintegration through the support of multiculturalist and assimilationist pro-immigration policies in Europe." - Yet, some of forum participators have broke this rule and they are not banned.


"Ad gentem arguments, racial slurs and the display and spread of agendas of hostility between the nations of Europe, are not permitted." - yet, ad gentem is often used as I have seen in my brief overview of this forum.

"We allow fair and benevolent criticism of all races, ethnicities and peoples; religious, cultural and social communities; ideologies, philosophies or any other ideas; persons and Members, attitudes and conduct, subject to these being properly argumented and presented in a civil manner." - yet, when I said what I think, without offending anyone, I was immediately banned. In short history of my involvement I found out your desire to dominate with one thought, thus forbidding discussion in civilized way what is purpose of forums. I am not employee of NATO, I am not working for them, and I am not promoting them, I just have an opinion. As I see, opinions are not welcomed.

That is why I am going to spread news about your attitudes in other European forums of which I am long participant.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by stribbor

I have to inform you that my views previously known as stribbor were misused and in this way I protest against it. I thought this was a very welcomed European forum about nationalism and ethnicity which is my professional field.

It is not welcome for promoting the NATO agenda, which was the principal reason for which you joined the forum.