How true are our national identities?

[Arjuna Durden]

how true, genuine or adequate do you consider the identity of your nation / ethnicity to be? is the image your country is giving of itself and its people faithful to what you consider their very essence and nature?

I doubt that many of us would see their nation in the same way their governments do or shape through everyday cultural policies and discourses. But what about others? has the demoliberal nation-building been successful in making you feel culturally and historically at home? How much does a Portuguese, Greek, Irish, Pole, Italian or Swedish identify themselves with the official image of their countries?

As the replies may vary according to which country they refer to, I would appreciate if you drop a line commenting the country you principally refer to and what your answer was.

Please also feel free to comment how you see this matter in general or in relation as to many nations or ethnicities as you know.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Arjuna Durden

how true, genuine or adequate do you consider the identity of your nation / ethnicity to be? is the image your country is giving of itself and its people faithful to what you consider their very essence and nature?

I think that german, as it is known to be in today's modern world, is far from what it actually was or should be seen as. I think the image that Germany gives off is one of a copy-cat American culture, with only shadows of our true german past. The very government we had imposed on us is ungerman at it's source. The Germany today is like a captured ship with a foreign skeleton crew at the helm.

Even the Americans, at the begining of this past war, asked why the Germans didn't join with them in the Iraqi conflict. Putting all politics and reasons for war aside, the American public didn't understand what they had done to the German, post-WWII. Germany as whole was demasculated (neutered), and had radical liberalist philosophies take hold within a german's mind set, that any war is bad, and other hippie, free spirit, "tutti frutti" (to barrow a phrase) ideas that were imported directly from America.

So no, I don't believe that the true indentity of the German people is being portrayed. I even think that if you'd try to portray the true identity, you'd be called a racist, or something. Today's Europe is a Muli-Culti, Egalitarian bee's hive. America is the bee keeper.



Tötet den Imker!

[Gil]

Portuguese national identity is misleading to say the least. Our current policy or harbouring and giving national status to immigrants is greatly damaging both our culture and even our gene pool. The whigger culture which is imported from the US is slowly corroding our younglings and promoting ideals and notions which are alien to us.
Oh, how I long for the times of Romanticism....

[Arjuna Durden]

Originally Posted by Manji

Portuguese national identity is misleading to say the least. Our current policy or harbouring and giving national status to immigrants is greatly damaging both our culture and even our gene pool. The whigger culture which is imported from the US is slowly corroding our younglings and promoting ideals and notions which are alien to us.

Hi Manji! I'm sure you're right, that all you say is happening, but the actual question is: how truly Portuguese is Portugals official image? or: how different is the real Portugal of Portuguese nationalists from the collective self-perception of Portugal imposed by its governments? Is the real Portugal just salted cod, fados, saudade (nostalgia) and whatever else that conforms the stereotype of present-day Portugal? and how true or false is all that?

(I'm just pointing out because I'm very interested in your opinion -especially being a Gallaecian )

Originally Posted by Manji

Oh, how I long for the times of Romanticism....

Yes, well, sometimes I'd just like to go medieval

[Gil]

Well, Johannes might answer this question better if you are looking for a Northern perspective. As for a southerner's perspective, it's bad. Pretty bad. The only good thing that has happened in recent years is that the number of births of negroids and of mixed negroid-caucasoid individuals is very down. Some analysts say that most africans in Portugal are either leaving for their homeland or only reproduce among themselves.

From my perspective, the government represents nothing which could be called the Portuguese Essence or the Portuguese Soul. Our fado/saudade symbolism is a fact and a part of our culture, not the whole. Cultural differentiation (moreso than racial) is very strong between north and south though some occasional enclaves share alot in common (for example in live near Setubal, southern of the Tagus, but my village was created by gallegos and northern portuguese, which would explain some cultural ties to the north).
The image our government tries to emphasize is one of multiculturalism, which is true, but also an idea of open doors to the world, which, as a matter of fact, most portuguese don't sponsor.

Oh well, I could go indepth on this one but i'm really busy with work right now, i'll post some more later.

[Prussian]

present-day national identities are mostly false, needing thoroughly regeneration

...I chose the above option, considering the fact any sense of true national identity has been distorted to the point that it has little value in the true of sense of it's original meaning, rather we witness a sickening persistence that grows with time.

[Graeme]

National identities run both ways. The natives have their national identity and foreigners have their identity of the natives. The two may coincide if it is good and differ widely if it is bad. It is like the French attitude to the English, the English attitude to the French and how both nationalities see themselves.

[Perun]

I really dont understand the nature of the question. National identity for Ukrainians has always been a struggle since many Ukrainians have no sense of being such. During the Soviet days it seems that the diaspora in the West had a greater sense of a Ukrainian identity than those back home.

Added to the problem is that many Ukrainians dont speak Ukrainian(I am one of them although Im trying to learn). Although a wise decision was made on this question, in that speaking Ukrainian is not necessarily a high mark of being Ukrainian. Being Ukrainian is largely based on being of Ukrainian decent, acknowledging that decent, and having a sense of responsibility to the Ukrainian community(both in Ukraine and abroad).

Some Ukrainian communities have a greater sense of being Ukrainian than others do. Some Ukrainians still see themselves pretty as Little Russians. Then theres a Rusyn question on whether or not they're Ukrainian or a seperate nation. Then theres the issue of whether Ukrainian nationalism is largely a Galician notion. And so on. Its a complicated matter.

[Constantinus]

You sure seem to like your polls Arj.

[Arjuna Durden]

Originally Posted by CONSTANTINUS

You sure seem to like your polls Arj.

Yep, a lot

ouh, but if you mean I don't seem to participate much in the discussions I start I'll tell you I simply prefer to let our Stirpites first express themselves and then try some recapitulation. (Well, as time is a finite good, especially this time for me, I can't unfortunately comment many things I would like to).

Also, if you think of some typical Arjie poll you would like to see posted, just tell me and I'll do it. And again, yes, I love polls (too bad for a convinced anti-democrat?)

[Gil]

Even anti-democrats like to know the opinions of their peers

[Constantinus]

Originally Posted by Arjuna Durden

Yep, a lot

ouh, but if you mean I don't seem to participate much in the discussions I start I'll tell you I simply prefer to let our Stirpites first express themselves and then try some recapitulation. (Well, as time is a finite good, especially this time for me, I can't unfortunately comment many things I would like to).

Also, if you think of some typical Arjie poll you would like to see posted, just tell me and I'll do it. And again, yes, I love polls (too bad for a convinced anti-democrat?)

Oh no, it was merely an observation. I like 'em too. To return to topic: national identities definately have their meaning today, but because they've been watered down since the pussification of Europe after the war, I think a redefinition is in order.

[Arjuna Durden]

Originally Posted by CONSTANTINUS

Oh no, it was merely an observation. I like 'em too. To return to topic: national identities definately have their meaning today, but because they've been watered down since the pussification of Europe after the war, I think a redefinition is in order.

pussification? that's indeed a rep point!

(have you ever thought about a PhD on the post-war pussification of Europe)

[Perun]

George Carlin did a skit about the continual pussification of the American male.
Enjoy http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/carlin.wav

[Arjuna Durden]

Originally Posted by Perun

George Carlin did a skit about the continual pussification of the American male.
Enjoy http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/carlin.wav

LOL. hey, Perun, you always have a link at hand, don't you?

I didn't know pussification is something of a common expression, sure you must have some fun everyday with the words people use in the Americas.

but returning to national identities, I am now asking myself not only how true my national identities are, but how much pussified they are. I'm afraid the youth of the Spanish Empire are not only pretty much pussified, but also acting as pussificators of the rest of society, of culture and customs. As to young males I remember seing lots of mollycoddle, punsy-fied young white males the last two or three times I was in Barcelona (a very pussified city indeed). I even think that's the common stereotype of male there.

[Constantinus]

Hahaha, it's catchy eh, the phrase. I picked it up from some yank long ago. The total rejection of and aversion to anything that might hint at national strength and pride, combined with a good dose of indifference and apathy. And so people become pussified.

[Ederico]

I voted "present-day national identities are halfway true, just needing reinforcement or re-nationalization" because that is the case for Malta. Malta must return to its sane Latin identification and not simply Maltese and European, we must regrasp our Italian heritage as well. Yes Re-Nationalization is the correct description for the process needed, I would also term it Cultural Re-Invigoration. I requote my signature from the manifesto of the Partito Nazionalista (1947):

"It is common knowledge that, in order to combat the denationalizing policy of the Imperial Government which would have us dealt with as if we were of Arabic or Levantine descent and would therefore do away with all the characteristics of our glorious Latin civilization, the Nationalist Party must necessarily defend also our Italian culture, now hundreds of years old"