How true are our national identities?

[Perun]

Funny you mention that, Im currently reading Subtelny's book.

I really cannot comment too much on the Rusyn question. Like you, Im moderate but slightly biased towards the position they are Ukrainian. However I do not believe that the Ukrainian identity can nor should be imposed on them, just like it was wrong for the Russian identity to be imposed on us.

If they are a seperate nation, then lets enter peaceful and cooperative relations with them.

The British question is a little complicated, although Andrew Wilson offered some comparison to the Ukrainian/Russian question.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Nestor

By the way - how many nationalities are British ie how many different autotonimous nationalities are there in Britain.

Four.
English, Scottish, Welsh (and some Irish too). All are locked into the parasitic sephardic-created entity known as the United Kingdom

[Judon ap Concar]

A State is not the source of national identity. This is the basic fact. The root is the ethnic group. I am Breton , not because a Breton State existed in the past, but because I am a member of a distinctive ethnic group.

[tankistabg]

Bulgarians have clear national identity. Sorry - "had". 45 years of communism can destroy even the best patriot(all the bulgarian were patriots). Now we have to restore our orietation. Too much time the commust lies kept us away from the truth - we are white, we have 13century of history and we came from the land of present Iran.

[United Faith]

Back to the drawing boards I think.

[Lucas Corso]

Originally Posted by Judon ap Concar

A State is not the source of national identity. This is the basic fact. The root is the ethnic group. I am Breton , not because a Breton State existed in the past, but because I am a member of a distinctive ethnic group.

I totally agree, especially because i live in an artificial state like Italy...

[Exeter]

Rather Turkic.

Is the Iranian theory widely accepted in Bulgaria?

Don't you mean north of present day Iran?

Originally Posted by tankistabg

we are white, we have 13century of history and we came from the land of present Iran.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Exeter

Rather Turkic.

Is the Iranian theory widely accepted in Bulgaria?

Don't you mean north of present day Iran?

Not Iran, for God's sake. The Bulgars came from Volga (today's southern Russia) and they were Turkic speaking people. After coming to Thrace-Moesia (present day Bulgaria) they found Slavic speaking people there. They subjugated those people and imposed their rule upon them, but were linguistically assimilated by them. leaving only the name Bulgar to the new nation.

The Turkic speaking Chuvash are probably most closely realted to the ancient Bulgars (the Chuvash are today Orthodox Christians).

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Plethon

Not Iran, for God's sake. The Bulgars came from Volga (today's southern Russia) and they were Turkic speaking people. After coming to Thrace-Moesia (present day Bulgaria) they found Slavic speaking people there. They subjugated those people and imposed their rule upon them, but were linguistically assimilated by them. leaving only the name Bulgar to the new nation.

The Turkic speaking Chuvash are probably most closely realted to the ancient Bulgars (the Chuvash are today Orthodox Christians).

True, but nevertheless the Iranian theory is popular in Bulgaria, mostly because of proposed Bulgar toponyms in close Iranian vicinity, or in the areas of proposed Bulgar expansion.

[Savorgnan]

I would say, regarding the French national identity, that being French is nowadays felt by the French more and more like a meta-ethnicity. Parisians are more and more a real ethnos, like the Athenians, while Greek is metha-ethnic, like French. At least that's how they seem to think, bloody jerks that they are!

[lunulae]

national identities can never be true or genuine, since they were created as a consequence of the national romanticism in the 19th century. j.g. herder and amateur ethnologists like the brothers grimm were the forerunners for this new "religion" that eventually led to a political ideology. i'm thus not indicating that a nation's folklore, traditions etcetera can't be genuine, i'm just saying that the concept 'national identity' is constructed.

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by lunulae

national identities can never be true or genuine, since they were created as a consequence of the national romanticism in the 19th century.

Sorry, regarding the French identity, it starts in the early middle ages. Have you ever heard of Carolus Magnus and Clovis?

Originally Posted by lunulae

j.g. herder and amateur ethnologists like the brothers grimm were the forerunners for this new "religion" that eventually led to a political ideology.

There is a strong smell of white nationalism in this...

Originally Posted by lunulae

i'm thus not indicating that a nation's folklore, traditions etcetera can't be genuine, i'm just saying that the concept 'national identity' is constructed.

"White nationalism" is much more a real XXth century folklore. I don't see anything as much "constructed" as that.

[Sergius]

Are you suggesting that lunulae is a WN? Trust me, he is far from it.

[Marulus]

There is always identity. European peoples have had a variety of identities over ages. Many of today's nations' identities can be traced back to the Middle Ages. Although that identity wasn't the same as that of the nineteenth century's, there is some continuity that can be traced.

It is a changing concept, it is not something static. In fact, human beings have always felt the need to be part of a larger group of people with "shared destiny", whether it be Greek city states (and Hellenism as a meta-ethinic concept), Asian nomadic tribes, belonging to some wider statal-civilizational construction (the Chinese Empire), or a community defined by sharing a religious belief (the Islamic ummah).

I would say that nation-states are a typical European way of expressing identity. Most of them arose out of medieval kingdoms and duchies, but later on many other elements were added up to their definitions as nations.

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Are you suggesting that lunulae is a WN?

No, I don't know lunulae enough to judge him. It's just that I had this unpleasant WN impression reading his post. I can easily have had a wrong impression.

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Trust me, he is far from it.

If you say so, then I trust you.