About 190 arrested in Copenhagen clashes

[Sergius]

Apparently it didn't help - three our four cars belonging to the 3x34 company were burned down yesterday. They had been used for transporting rubble out of the area.
To be honest, I do not think this is that great a thing. Obviously, I oppose the "movement" surrounding squatters, and I dislike the core users of Ungdomshuset, but I think we should also consider two things:
First of all what replaces this house - looking at the active anti-Ungdomshuset movement in Denmark helps: young men in grey suits, white shirts and purple ties (I used to write at their forum, and trust me, you won't find more pro-US/pro-Israel libertarians in all of Denmark) - and these people, as opposed to the Ungdomshuset kids, actually have a lot of political influence. Anarchists don't. A colder, more boring Copenhagen with more of the soulless, sterile bullshit, is what we are getting.
Second of all, although I haven't ever been there, and probably never would have if it had stayed, it was a place with many interesting activities, including music that has no other venues in Copenhagen, not to mention a lot of anti-globalization groups.

Tearing the building down: Politiken.dk - det levende net

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Apparently it didn't help - three our four cars belonging to the 3x34 company were burned down yesterday. They had been used for transporting rubble out of the area.
To be honest, I do not think this is that great a thing. Obviously, I oppose the "movement" surrounding squatters, and I dislike the core users of Ungdomshuset, but I think we should also consider two things:
First of all what replaces this house - looking at the active anti-Ungdomshuset movement in Denmark helps: young men in grey suits, white shirts and purple ties (I used to write at their forum, and trust me, you won't find more pro-US/pro-Israel libertarians in all of Denmark) - and these people, as opposed to the Ungdomshuset kids, actually have a lot of political influence. Anarchists don't. A colder, more boring Copenhagen with more of the soulless, sterile bullshit, is what we are getting.
Second of all, although I haven't ever been there, and probably never would have if it had stayed, it was a place with many interesting activities, including music that has no other venues in Copenhagen, not to mention a lot of anti-globalization groups.

Tearing the building down: Politiken.dk - det levende net

So it seems that scum is replacing another scum?

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Apparently it didn't help - three our four cars belonging to the 3x34 company were burned down yesterday. They had been used for transporting rubble out of the area.

The news reports I heard were not that current. Still I don't blame the construction company for attempting to protect its property.

To be honest, I do not think this is that great a thing.

Well, I don't know if I necessarily exactly 'agree' with the building being torn down, at the same time I suppose I'm a bit indifferent to the 'plight' of the squatters..

Obviously, I oppose the "movement" surrounding squatters, and I dislike the core users of Ungdomshuset

Sounds good...

but I think we should also consider two things:
First of all what replaces this house- looking at the active anti-Ungdomshuset movement in Denmark helps: young men in grey suits, white shirts and purple ties (I used to write at their forum, and trust me, you won't find more pro-US/pro-Israel libertarians in all of Denmark) - and these people,

Certainly not a positive thing for Denmark.

as opposed to the Ungdomshuset kids, actually have a lot of political influence. Anarchists don't.

Here's where I might disagree a bit with you. Those 'powerless' anarchists do have plenty of political power, though I would say this 'power' is allowed to them as controlled opposition, and is not generated of themselves. They are able to stay illegally in buildings for years with little or nothing of substance done to stop them, as in this case here. They often have a press which is quite sympathetic to them. They are allowed to get away (or only be lightly penalized for) with acts of violence which no one else could, particularly if the one's they assault are people the Establishment sees as its enemies.

A colder, more boring Copenhagen with more of the soulless, sterile bullshit, is what we are getting.

While what is replacing the house hardly seems the best, nor what you describe as the general opposition at the forum you mentioned (which is just the other side of the same coin as the reds ultimately) I'd not be too concerned, not that you particularly are, as to the 'squatters'....as surely someone from the Denmark Establishment will make sure that the 'anarchist' can have a house to squat in soon enough so that Copenhagen might be vibrant and exciting once more.

Second of all, although I haven't ever been there, and probably never would have if it had stayed, it was a place with many interesting activities, including music that has no other venues in Copenhagen, not to mention a lot of anti-globalization groups.

The music and activities is all very nice, but cannot that be done in a legal manner, without 'squatting' on someone elses' property. Cannot also that be done without being an anarchist/red? As far as the anti-globalization groups, the corporations can afford the extra security cost at their conclaves, or the occassional broken window at a McDonalds...what they cannot afford to do, along with many a government, is be seen to be openly supporting the mass importation of cheap labor (aka 'immigrants) into a country, and thus having the effect ultimately of destroying peoplehoods and cultures. That's where these 'anarchists' become an arm of the state...enforcers..which I'd suggest is one of the primary reasons a lot of their nonsense is tolerated.

The Establishment couldn't do what it is doing in most places, bringing about multi-culturalism, without them.

For any who might not be aware, cheap labor was effectively calculated by the former US treasurer and slave speculator Robert Walker to have a superior profitability of over four times (ie 400%) that of chattel slavery. Cheap labor itself of course being merely a modern, incredibly destructive, variant of slavery.

As for Denmark, there has been apparently at least some succesful resistance to multi-culturalism from what I've heard...ie they are largely retaining their homogenity...the immigration is being resisted with positive results to an extent. But that's probably another reason that the anarchist will very probably soon have a new place to squat in, so the Establishment can keep them on the ready for when they are needed.

[Sergius]

Originally Posted by prometheus

So it seems that scum is replacing another scum?

It wouldn't be the first time.

Originally Posted by Gladstone

The news reports I heard were not that current. Still I don't blame the construction company for attempting to protect its property.

Of course not. There's no justification for what this kids have done.

Originally Posted by Gladstone

The music and activities is all very nice, but cannot that be done in a legal manner, without 'squatting' on someone elses' property. Cannot also that be done without being an anarchist/red?

Certainly. What is interesting in the current situation, is that the spirit of Ungdomshuset probably will live on in new places, legal or illegal (if you know about Second Life, there is now an exact copy of the house on there), and hopefully in a milieu that will not be dominated by the BZ/squatter people and their agenda. I have met a few of the people who were active in Ungdomshuset, and I am sure that some of them will keep on doing what they were doing, and, as said, hopefully without having to feel that they 'owe' anything to the squatter movement.

Originally Posted by Gladstone

As far as the anti-globalization groups, the corporations can afford the extra security cost at their conclaves, or the occassional broken window at a McDonalds...what they cannot afford to do, along with many a government, is be seen to be openly supporting the mass importation of cheap labor (aka 'immigrants) into a country, and thus having the effect ultimately of destroying peoplehoods and cultures. That's where these 'anarchists' become an arm of the state...enforcers..which I'd suggest is one of the primary reasons a lot of their nonsense is tolerated.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Gladstone

As for Denmark, there has been apparently at least some succesful resistance to multi-culturalism from what I've heard...ie they are largely retaining their homogenity...the immigration is being resisted with positive results to an extent. But that's probably another reason that the anarchist will very probably soon have a new place to squat in, so the Establishment can keep them on the ready for when they are needed.

Well, I am not sure if you can really talk about succesful resistance to multi-culturalism in Denmark (jeg bor forresten i Danmark, hvis du skulle være i tvivl) - there is Dansk Folkeparti who treat the symptoms, i.e. immigration and decline in life quality and security for the weak groups in Danish society (the elderly, the sick, low-income workers, etc.), but refuse to act on the real cause of all this: capitalism. They want high standards of living, without the consequences...

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Certainly. What is interesting in the current situation, is that the spirit of Ungdomshuset probably will live on in new places, legal or illegal (if you know about Second Life, there is now an exact copy of the house on there), and hopefully in a milieu that will not be dominated by the BZ/squatter people and their agenda. I have met a few of the people who were active in Ungdomshuset, and I am sure that some of them will keep on doing what they were doing, and, as said, hopefully without having to feel that they 'owe' anything to the squatter movement.

The Second Life site is interesting. Thanks for the link. Hopefully some of those young folks will be having some second thoughts about certain things.

Well, I am not sure if you can really talk about succesful resistance to multi-culturalism in Denmark (jeg bor forresten i Danmark, hvis du skulle være i tvivl) - there is Dansk Folkeparti who treat the symptoms, i.e. immigration and decline in life quality and security for the weak groups in Danish society (the elderly, the sick, low-income workers, etc.), but refuse to act on the real cause of all this: capitalism. They want high standards of living, without the consequences...

I'm sorry to hear that's the case with Denmark. Money/economics should strictly be a tool of man, carefully controlled like fire, and man not a tool of it.