Macedonians Won’t Give Up Name for NATO

[Marulus]

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research

Macedonians Won’t Give Up Name for NATO

March 13, 2008



(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - The vast majority of people in Macedonia are against changing their country’s name to become a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), according to a poll by the Center for Research and Policy Making. 82.5 per cent of respondents reject Greece’s condition to support Macedonia’s accession to NATO.

Greece has insisted that Macedonia is properly known as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia in international organizations. However, more than two-thirds of United Nations (UN) member states—including the United States—have recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name: Republic of Macedonia.

Greece has also expressed concerns over future territorial claims to one of its provinces, which is also known as Macedonia. Despite the controversy, the two countries signed a trade accord in 1995.

In December 2005, the European Union (EU) granted "candidate status" to Macedonia. The country is expected to be invited to join NATO at a summit in April, along with Croatia and Albania. Greece has vowed to oppose Macedonia’s entry into both organizations, unless it does so as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

On Mar. 6, Greek foreign minister Dora Bakoyannis ratified that her country would block Macedonia’s accession to NATO if it fails to change its name, saying, "Unfortunately the policy followed by the government of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia in its relations with Greece, particularly as concerns its intransigent stance and its actions of an irredentist and nationalist logic, do not allow Greece to take the same positive stance as in the case of Croatia and Albania."

At the same time, Dutch foreign minister Maxime Verhagen urged Greece and Macedonia to come to an agreement soon to facilitate the country’s NATO bid, saying, "A name cannot be an objection for the accession of a country."

Polling Data

Should Macedonia change its name to secure accession to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO)?

Yes 15.9%
No 82.5%

Source: Center for Research and Policy Making
Methodology: Interviews with 1,100 Macedonian adults, conducted from Mar. 7 to Mar. 9, 2008. No margin of error was provided.

[source]

[Marulus]

Albanian party threatens to bring down Macedonian government

[Ricardo Reis]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Macedonians Won’t Give Up Name for NATO

Then they should give up Nato for the name.

[Kalevi]

Why is the name important?

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Kalevi

Why is the name important?

Why is the NATO important?

[Kalevi]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Why is the NATO important?

It isn't. I just wondered why the Greeks want the Macedonian state to be called FYROM instead of Republic of Macedonia.

I mean, what's the significance between being 'former Yugoslav republic' instead just 'republic'?

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Kalevi

It isn't. I just wondered why the Greeks want the Macedonian state to be called FYROM instead of Republic of Macedonia.

I mean, what's the significance between being 'former Yugoslav republic' instead just 'republic'?

It is a long and a little bit tiresome story...

Macedonia naming dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Greek-Macedonian Name Dispute

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/In...Tziampiris.pdf

History of the name "Macedonia"

The Future of the Macedonian Nation by Risto Stefov

(some of these articles expound the Macedonian, others the Greek point of view)

Some earlier discussion on that topic on Stirpes:

What is Macedonia and who are Macedonians?

History of Macedonia and the Macedonian Nation

Macedonians name airport after Alexander the Great

Your Opinion On The Macedonian Issue

[Marulus]

Macedonia\'s Albanians back compromise in name row

[vaskar]

In this occasion the name is very important. People there have been told that are the descendants of Alexander the Great.
However, that is not the case, since ancient Macedonians were Greeks. Their language was the greek language and all the names seen in scripts of ancient Macedonians are greek words (not slavic) (e.g. Alexander means "the one who keeps the men away", Philip means "the one who loves horses).
In fact i cant understand how a nation can have a title that represents its unity since the word macedonia is a greek word (means the land that is located northwards).
I think there would not be such a conflicion if it was only for the name. as a matter of fact people are convinced that they are the ancestors of Alexander and there are everywhere in fyrom statues of Alexander the Great. Also people keep a hostile stance towards Greece.
see this Greek Lie: Modern Greeks are Descended from the Ancient Greeks by Risto Stefov
So, it is not only because of the name. Is just because somebody is trying to steal your past, your history, your identity.
In a few words the whole story is a nonsense.
There is not a single clue indicating that ancient Macedonians were Slavs and not a single clue that ancient Macedonians were speaking in Slav.
I think that some people living there apparently have macedonian (greek) origins but we are not talking about origins but history. even if the whole thing seems trivial now, if fyrom is recognised as Macedonia then in 100 years everybody will know about the Slav Alexander the Great and his huge achievements.
i will make it simple macedonia is a greek word with a greek meaning. Find another word to name your country. I got upset now.

[Superstar]

The issue is a lot more complicated than people like "vaskar" make it out to be.

Even when you break it down to the basics; Officially, since WW2, the country currently known as FYROM was called Macedonia. It was part of Jugoslavia, sure, but even then, the people living there called themselves Macedonians. Just like the Croatians called themselves Croats and the Serbs, Serbs. So how can the people from that region be expected to simply give up that name? The name is a vital form of identity, even if that identity is only a few decades old (which it isn't but that's another argument). Everyone in FYROM between the ages of 20 and 60 (which is the majority of the population) was born as a Macedonian. I know I was.

I agree, it's wrong to claim a link to ancient Macedonians but it's also wrong for Greece to start complaining now, after allowing a new Macedonian identity to form for half a century. Maybe the country should be called "New Macedonia", or whatever, but nobody would accept a completely new name.

[agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Superstar

The issue is a lot more complicated than people like "vaskar" make it out to be.

Even when you break it down to the basics; Officially, since WW2, the country currently known as FYROM was called Macedonia. It was part of Jugoslavia, sure, but even then, the people living there called themselves Macedonians. Just like the Croatians called themselves Croats and the Serbs, Serbs. So how can the people from that region be expected to simply give up that name? The name is a vital form of identity, even if that identity is only a few decades old (which it isn't but that's another argument). Everyone in FYROM between the ages of 20 and 60 (which is the majority of the population) was born as a Macedonian. I know I was.

I agree, it's wrong to claim a link to ancient Macedonians but it's also wrong for Greece to start complaining now, after allowing a new Macedonian identity to form for half a century. Maybe the country should be called "New Macedonia", or whatever, but nobody would accept a completely new name.

The vast majority of the Greek population had no idea that there was an area in Jugoslavia called Macedonia. Our politics did nothing about it cause they did not want to <<upset>> Tito (at least thats what they say...).

Things would have been much easier if FYROM did not claim anything about Greece ancient history.

Can you please tell us what teachers teach , and history books say about the history of FYROM at your scools?

[Kan Yuvigi Asparukh]

I don't think that the name Macedonia is the real problem. I think that fyromians have every right to use the name Macedonia. I don't believe it's a greek trademark or so. The names Moesia and Thracia are also in use, although not as a country names, but they are still Greek names which refer to some non-Greek areas. The real problem, I think, is the identity. The Macedonian history is too widely debated and I don't to talk about it now.
But definately there are two possibilities:
1) Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians all say the same things about Macedonia. These vile Balkan imperialists created a world conspiracy against Macedonians.
or
2) FYROM leaders are just lying.
You can choose between these two options

[agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Kan Yuvigi Asparukh

I don't think that the name Macedonia is the real problem. I think that fyromians have every right to use the name Macedonia. I don't believe it's a greek trademark or so. The names Moesia and Thracia are also in use, although not as a country names, but they are still Greek names which refer to some non-Greek areas. The real problem, I think, is the identity. The Macedonian history is too widely debated and I don't to talk about it now.
But definately there are two possibilities:
1) Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians all say the same things about Macedonia. These vile Balkan imperialists created a world conspiracy against Macedonians.
or
2) FYROM leaders are just lying.
You can choose between these two options

I choose No2

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Kan Yuvigi Asparukh

1) Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians all say the same things about Macedonia. These vile Balkan imperialists created a world conspiracy against Macedonians.

I would not say that the three are telling the same things.

Bulgarians do not object to the name Macedonia. They just deny the existance of a Macedonian nation, claim that Macedonians are Bulgarians and that Macedonia (ie. FYROM) is another Bulgarian state (something like Serbia-Montenegro, Germany-Austria, Romania-Moldova, Greece-Cyprus etc).

Greeks on the other hand strongly object to the very usage of the name Macedonia on the part of what they call Skopians, deeming the name as the exclusive part of their own heritage and Skopians as usurpers thereof (Dimokratia twn Skopiwn etc).

For Serbs it is just southern Serbia (južna Srbija), part of the medieval Dušan's empire, which they conquered in the Balkan Wars (1912-1923), but was afterwards stripped from them.

Not the same things, really, the picture is quite complex.

[Superstar]

Originally Posted by agamemnon

Can you please tell us what teachers teach , and history books say about the history of FYROM at your scools?

There were no Alexander the Great claims from FYROM before 1991. When I was at school in the 80's, we were never told that we were descendants from Alexander. This attempt to establish a link to ancient Macedonians has only happened since Greece started objecting to the name.

Originally Posted by agamemnon

The vast majority of the Greek population had no idea that there was an area in Jugoslavia called Macedonia.

I seriously doubt that. Even back in the Jugoslavian era, I saw plenty of Greek tourists visit my country and nobody complained. I'm sure that most Greek households had television from at least the 1970's so most people would have been at least aware. But again, the Greeks said nothing until the Jugoslavia breakup.

[Ostrogorski]

Originally Posted by Marulus

For Serbs it is just southern Serbia (južna Srbija), part of the medieval Dušan's empire, which they conquered in the Balkan Wars (1912-1923), but was afterwards stripped from them.

Most of the Serbs don't give a damn about Macedonia in that sense generally, most of the Serbs rather look at them as our southern neighbor and friendly people.

But there are people (including myself) who think that by seceding Macedonia made a problem to herself and also to the whole region. First because Macedonia is too small to take care about her own business, and will always be a tool in the hands of some great power (like USA f.e.). With only 2 million inhabitants barely will ever have any opportunity to develop.

Second, by seceding she gave the right to Albanian minority to secede from Macedonia and later join the project of greater Albania, which will be the new atlantist stronghold in this part of Europe.

Generally the goal of USA is the return of the Turkey as a great power in the Balkans, so that's why they're supporting Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. The smaller the countries are and the more of them, the better for the Americans. Because they can easily control them and in that way prevent the Germans from reaching the near and middle east. Greeks are not stupid people, they will never allow the use of name Macedonia, because they know it will be used against them and the whole Balkans for creating a new Ottoman monster.

Third, by seceding Macedonia also opened a possible clash between Serbia and Bulgaria over the control of the Vardar valley, which must be avoided at all costs, because that's precisely what USA/NATO wants.

I see 2 possible solutions for this problem.

Macedonia could enter the union with Serbia, in that case we could join forces and fight the American backed Albanians with the help of Russia a lot easier. Macedonians could keep their identity and autonomy without problem.

The second is union with Bulgaria. In my opinion not a good solution, because Bulgaria is already in NATO and will be used as a tool against Russia and Germany too. In the case Bulgaria objects she will fall as the first victim of Turkey. Macedonians would in that case also loose identity.