Stirpes  

Go Back   Stirpes > Newsroom & Current Affairs > Europe In The News > Politics & Institutions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Friday, November 23rd, 2007
Aptrgangr's Avatar
Nec temere - Nec timide
 
Last Online: 8 Hours Ago 21:54
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Deutschland/Germany
Posts: 1,627
Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.
Default Far right gains ground in Germany's east

Quote:
Far right gains ground in Germany's east

By Rosie Goldsmith
Reporter, Crossing Continents

There have been calls in the German parliament for a ban on a far-right party that has been winning increased support in poorer parts of the east of the country.


Frequent NPD demonstrations are held in parts of eastern Germany

"The National Democratic Party (NPD) provides the core infrastructure for neo-Nazis in Germany. That's why we are considering a ban," says a determined Sebastian Edathy.
He is a Social Democrat MP in the German Bundestag and is the main voice calling for a federal ban of the far-right NPD. He has just got his party to agree to begin the long, slow process towards a ban.
In 2003, the proposal got as far as the Constitutional Court, and stumbled. Next time, Edathy says, it will work. He rattles off his reasons:
"The NPD is anti-Semitic and very racist. It is oriented on Hitler's old party, the NSDAP. It is against a multiple party system. It is undemocratic," he says.
"The NPD is quite obviously working openly against the constitution. For example, every weekend demonstrations take place organised by the NPD but involving radical, violence-prone neo-Nazis."

Resurgence
The NPD was created in West Germany more than 40 years ago, mainly by Nazi war veterans.
It lost members and direction until German reunification in 1990. As unemployment and unhappiness increased in the old east, the NPD gained ground.

The NDP sent over its money and best people from the west to deliberately target the neglected areas of the east.
Toralf Staud is the author of Modern Nazis, an important study of the recent growth of the NPD party and of the neo-Nazi movement.
"This is one of the most interesting political developments in Germany - how the far right is gaining influence in rural areas and the provinces," he says.
"There is little resistance because there are fewer democratic alternatives in eastern Germany, fewer churches, trade unions and NGOs, so civil society is much weaker there. And the mainstream parties are just not active in many places."
Mr Staud calls the state of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania in the far north-eastern corner of Germany "a laboratory of the far right". Of the 16 Laender - or states - it is the most sparsely populated and has some of the highest unemployment.

After just a few years, with its focus on social outreach and local issues, the revamped NPD now boasts an average of about 10% support in that state.
In one community, Postlow, on the Polish border, it got nearly 40% of the vote in last year's state elections. Then, for the first time six NPD members were elected into the state parliament.
Today two out of 16 Laender have NPD MPs. And the NPD is hungry for more.

Reaching out
Michael Andrejewski "emigrated" from west to east in 2003. He is a lawyer by profession with no political training. Last year he became an MP for the NPD in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. I spoke with him at an NPD rally in the town of Pasewalk and asked him about the aims of the party.
"We want an independent Germany. We do not want alien powers like Brussels and the EU taking away our powers," he said.
"First, we have another concept for another society. Second, we help in daily problems, we listen to people and help them with admin and social services. I have street credibility with them because I have been unemployed myself. I have shared their sorrows."
Up to 500 far-right activists took part in the demonstration through Pasewalk. They waved banners and flags with slogans such as "National Resistance" and "More jobs. Fewer immigrants."

They wore mainly black clothes and marched to the beat of eight drummers.
Most of the demonstrators belonged to Kameradschaften - or comradeships. The police describe some of these groups as "militant neo-Nazis" and say many are violent and racist.
The fact that the groups have decided to support the NPD is crucial to the success of the party in this region, because this is their home turf and these are their local issues.

"This is not a racist party"
Crossing Continents asked Mr Andrejewski about this support for his party.
"I do not see them as neo-Nazis. If they were, they would want to restore the Third Reich, which they do not.
"They are young people from the region. The way they dress is just fashion. There is no violence behind it. If there were, they would be punished.
"This is not a racist party. It is a German party. We want Germany to stay German and we do not want to be overwhelmed by invaders or intruders."

And when asked why he had moved from the west to the east, Mr Andrejewski replied:
"I came here because the ruling system is weaker here and easier to defeat. You have to attack an enemy where it is weak. "
Tino Mueller, the leader of the radical right comradeship called the National Germanic Brotherhood, was also at the demonstration. He is an NPD MP in the state parliament.
"I am a child of German unification. We were lied to by politicians before the changes and we are being lied to again. The NPD is the only alternative," he said.
"This is a party for young people - our average age is 37 - in the other parties it's 50. They have nothing to offer us."
I asked Tino Mueller if the party distanced itself from Hitler and the old Nazi party?
"We have got to look at these things in a balanced way," he said. "There are negative and positive aspects to that time - you cannot condemn the whole German tribe just because of those 12 years.
"The NPD wants to make politics for the German people but we are not the party of Adolf Hitler. We have new ideas and new problems today. And the NPD plans to act."

Wake up call
Toralf Staud, author of Modern Nazis, does not believe in a ban of the NPD party because he believes would drive the ideology underground. He says they need to be confronted head on to weaken their relevance.
"There has to be more argument about them and with them. Most people reject them or ignore them. But the NPD is already strong enough that you cannot ignore them," says Mr Staud.
"So far they are not at the doors of the Bundestag so the government does little. The danger has been in the provinces and rural areas (of the east). But in one or two years the NPD will run town halls and hold mayoral positions for the first time. Maybe then it will be a wake-up call."

So is SPD man Sebastian Edathy's call for a ban of the NPD too late?
"It would have been good if the first trial had led to a ban of the NPD [in 2003] but it is not too late. Education and prevention are also part of the tool box of stopping the NPD.
"I do not think they will make it into the Bundestag. Extremist parties are always a threat to democracy but I think our democratic system is strong enough to handle this challenge."

SEE ALSO
The Far Right In Germany
Modern Nazis by Toralf Staud (German)
BBC NEWS | Programmes | Crossing Continents | Far right gains ground in Germany\'s east
__________________
Alsbald kriegen ihre Strafe
Der böse Turko und der Zuave
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Friday, November 23rd, 2007
Menydh's Avatar
Southern Charm,
Western Passion
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 15,722
Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.
Default Re: Far right gains ground in Germany's east

Outside Germany, an attempt to create a National-Democratic platform has failed, I believe that elsewhere.

I don't think that the National Democratic alternative is a good option as a base for future developments. It is too burdened in my opinion with things of the past.
__________________
'Dardanidae duri, quae uos a stirpe parentum
prima tulit tellus, eadem uos ubere laeto
accipiet reduces. Antiquam exquirite matrem:
hic domus Aeneae cunctis dominabitur oris,
et nati natorum, et qui nascentur ab illis.'



We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

--Plato--
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Friday, November 23rd, 2007
Gnist's Avatar
Truth cannot be denied without contradiction
 
Last Online: 11 Hours Ago 18:08
Join Date: Mar 2007
Age: 33
Posts: 1,729
Blog Entries: 2
Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.
Default Re: Far right gains ground in Germany's east

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynydd View Post
Outside Germany, an attempt to create a National-Democratic platform has failed, I believe that elsewhere.

I don't think that the National Democratic alternative is a good option as a base for future developments. It is too burdened in my opinion with things of the past.
Would you care to explain why NPD in particular would not be a good option, and what do you mean when saying that National Democratic parties have failed? You don't have to take BNP as an example, I already know your opinion on it. I'm more interested in what you think is wrong with the movement generally, as well as what is wrong with the strategy and ideology of NPD in particular.
__________________
If you hold bloody pieces of meat before the hordes, then is it justice when they roar?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Friday, November 23rd, 2007
Marulus's Avatar
absinthomaniac
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in a green universe
Posts: 7,257
Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.Marulus is a deity.
Default Re: Far right gains ground in Germany's east

I don't know much about NPD. As an outsider, I have the impression that they have a sound platform, from what I could find out. Just my opinion.

We should wait for opinions of Germans from this board.
__________________
.
Quote:
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. (Matt 7, 6)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Friday, November 23rd, 2007
Menydh's Avatar
Southern Charm,
Western Passion
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 15,722
Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.
Default Re: Far right gains ground in Germany's east

I wasn't thinking of Germany in particular, but elsewhere. In Germany it is not a matter of whether it is a good option or not. In Germany it is the only option.

In Spain, DN has failed miserably and you can only expect it to sink deeper. Behind this failure is the model of people stuck on a urban tribe fashion, who in the article are excused as "The way they dress is just fashion. There is no violence behind it. If there were, they would be punished."

I'm afraid that that's a trivialization of what outside the inner circle offers a much different perception. That ot a link (or, as I said earlier, a burden) with a neo-nazi fashion.

And let's be honest here. The vast majority of the people will prefer to let things sink further down before giving their support to what they perceive in such a fashion. And I can't blame them for it.

As a side reflection, if I stop for a moment to think about the particular characteristics of Eastern Germany and the phenomenon of the NPD there, the one other example for comparison that occurs to me is the extreme-left in Southern Spain. But never mind, this is a quick and personal reflection that would need much more personal analysis before being able to draw any worthy conclusions.


p.s. the BNP is not a part of the National Democratic alternative
__________________
'Dardanidae duri, quae uos a stirpe parentum
prima tulit tellus, eadem uos ubere laeto
accipiet reduces. Antiquam exquirite matrem:
hic domus Aeneae cunctis dominabitur oris,
et nati natorum, et qui nascentur ab illis.'



We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

--Plato--
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Friday, November 23rd, 2007
Gnist's Avatar
Truth cannot be denied without contradiction
 
Last Online: 11 Hours Ago 18:08
Join Date: Mar 2007
Age: 33
Posts: 1,729
Blog Entries: 2
Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.Gnist 's judgement is sought by kings.
Default Re: Far right gains ground in Germany's east

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynydd View Post
In Spain, DN has failed miserably and you can only expect it to sink deeper. Behind this failure is the model of people stuck on a urban tribe fashion, who in the article are excused as "[size=2]The way they dress is just fashion. There is no violence behind it. If there were, they would be punished."

I'm afraid that that's a trivialization of what outside the inner circle offers a much different perception. That ot a link (or, as I said earlier, a burden) with a neo-nazi fashion.

And let's be honest here. The vast majority of the people will prefer to let things sink further down before giving their support to what they perceive in such a fashion. And I can't blame them for it.
OK. I've never seen that kind of dress on Swedish representatives of National Democracy. I also want to hear the opinions of our Germans.
__________________
If you hold bloody pieces of meat before the hordes, then is it justice when they roar?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Friday, November 23rd, 2007
Senior Member
 
Last Online: 3 Days Ago 08:54
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 354
Martín Zalacaín is considered wise by the elders.Martín Zalacaín is considered wise by the elders.Martín Zalacaín is considered wise by the elders.Martín Zalacaín is considered wise by the elders.Martín Zalacaín is considered wise by the elders.Martín Zalacaín is considered wise by the elders.
Default Re: Far right gains ground in Germany's east

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynydd
I'm afraid that that's a trivialization of what outside the inner circle offers a much different perception. That ot a link (or, as I said earlier, a burden) with a neo-nazi fashion.

And let's be honest here. The vast majority of the people will prefer to let things sink further down before giving their support to what they perceive in such a fashion. And I can't blame them for it.
Agreed. Anyway, I think DN in Spain is a too extreme example, they are a shoddy piece of a party. The NPD looks more organized, defiant and strict.

Come on, dear germans! We are waiting for your opinions!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Saturday, November 24th, 2007
Aptrgangr's Avatar
Nec temere - Nec timide
 
Last Online: 8 Hours Ago 21:54
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Deutschland/Germany
Posts: 1,627
Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.Aptrgangr 's wisdom is legendary.
Default Re: Far right gains ground in Germany's east

I will vote for NPD since this party is running here for state elections in january and there is nothing else to vote for. Voting in a liberal democracy is ballot card fetischism IMO, the ruling class would be concerned if this party get's more than 5% of the votes and enters regional parliament - it happened in Saxony and Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. It was amusing to see the hysteria, despite intense propaganda and campaigns "against right" NPD made in the parliaments there, actually having no real power since it is a small opposition party. If this party makes it into the Bundestag (federal parliament) it will become outlawed, I have no doubts about that, the FRG is a liberal democracy and can not allow any kind of political opposition. The agents within NPD already are doing a good job, one MP started Sieg Heiling in public, police suddenly found child porn on a computer of another MP...this system is creative in it's methods to fight the only political opposition, isn't it?
Recently I read a government textbook, there clearly was said it makes no sense to debate with "right-wing extremists" because they can not be convinced with arguments - a declaration of bancruptcy. Unfortunately people are too apathic to realize they still could resists this corrupt political
__________________
Alsbald kriegen ihre Strafe
Der böse Turko und der Zuave
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Saturday, November 24th, 2007
Menydh's Avatar
Southern Charm,
Western Passion
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 15,722
Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.Menydh is a deity.
Default Re: Far right gains ground in Germany's east

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
The agents within NPD already are doing a good job, one MP started Sieg Heiling in public, police suddenly found child porn on a computer of another MP...this system is creative in it's methods to fight the only political opposition, isn't it?
That's the problem to which I was referring.

The system? It is undeniable that the system infiltrates its own elements to prevent any nationalist alternative from making any advances, by burdening it with ideas and events that belonged to a very particular period of history and which are much past today.

But a bit of self-critique wouldn't do any harm. If something, it should do much good.

There are enough elements that are not of the system, and that do not even need the influence of any system agents, which do exactly what the system expects us to do. I can easily imagine how any office department in charge of preventing the advance of nationalism, in any country, its officers spend most of the day among drinks in the bar because so much of their work is already done by inside elements, without these offices even need to hint them.

One of the many examples, would be this

German rightist jailed for Hitler salute

former Baader-Meinhof founder member, and later NPD legal representative.

Rather than focusing on whether he is a system agent or an irresponsible element, I would focus on the question of why the probability of such things happening is not dealt with effectively by the party hierarchy for a start. Only then you can focus on how to deal with outside infiltration.

In Spain, Democracia Nacional (DN) not only has not stood by its purposed autonomía histórica (historical autonomy), but it has also imported historical elements which are not even Spanish and they are more burdening than our own. And I'm not pointing to the worse case. DN is nothing if you compare it to e.g. Alianza Nacional (AN), who they go to such lengths as to give a high priority to foreign, alien burdens (in other words, they are mix of nazi and WN).

And I wonder, if I am a Nationalist and I don't stand any near to those, why should I be stigmatized by them? And, like me, so many others who are or who would be, but who refuse to be marked with that stigma. Understandibly so.
__________________
'Dardanidae duri, quae uos a stirpe parentum
prima tulit tellus, eadem uos ubere laeto
accipiet reduces. Antiquam exquirite matrem:
hic domus Aeneae cunctis dominabitur oris,
et nati natorum, et qui nascentur ab illis.'



We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

--Plato--
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
None


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nationalist Party Gains in Swiss Vote Aptrgangr Ethnopolitics 23 Tuesday, October 30th, 2007 14:09
Wars in Africa wipe out aid gains Aptrgangr World News 0 Thursday, October 11th, 2007 18:03
Reconstructions and maps: early East-Nordids and East-Cromagnids Linus Physical Anthropology 1 Tuesday, November 8th, 2005 07:28
Germany's East-West Gap Narrowing Aeternitas Labour & Economic Issues 0 Thursday, April 28th, 2005 14:29
Oil gains as demand forecasts rise Menydh World News 0 Friday, February 11th, 2005 00:04

Locations of visitors to this page

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:57.

Page generated in 0.5156231 seconds with 22 queries.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0