End of Belgium should be a warning to Gordon

[Laocoon]

Originally Posted by Plethon

Frankly speaking, he was just a Frank.

Yes, so was Martel.

[OneEnglishNorman]

Johnson is interesting. I understand he speaks at least Italian and French, he understands Europe to some extent.

I wouldn't take what he writes seriously, he is likely half-joking. But his final paragraph contains many wise words;

If Belgium splits up, that fissure will not only make a mockery of Belgium's central role in the cause of European integration. It will be a huge boost to Europe's remaining separatist movements, the Basques, the Corsicans, the Welsh - and, above all, the Scots. If the Belgian creation of 1830 is capable of falling apart, why should we expect the union of 1707 to be imperishable?
It is one of the wonders of the Brown "bounce" that no one any longer sees fit to point out the infamy of the West Lothian problem. We have a Scottish MP Prime Minister, promulgating measures on health and education and other matters that have no effect on his own constituents, and while Scottish MPs are able to vote on English schools and hospitals, English MPs have no corresponding say in Scotland. The English seem utterly passive in the face of this injustice; and in spite of this passivity - or perhaps partly because of it - the Scots advance ever further on the path towards independence.

[Laocoon]

I don't know. Belgium is a different case, it seems at least one part of the population is willing to split up, while some of the speratist movements quoted above are not supported by their own people. The Corsicans for instance are certainy not separatists, they know very well what they have to lose; and if you consider more Corsicans are living on the continent than on their island... it does make sense. As for the Basque population in France, I doubt it is separatist. But why not? And if we could dump the DOM TOM along, that would be really great.

[Dr Fred]

Originally Posted by Lagun

I do not quite understand your position.
Are you in favour of spliting Belgium? If so, do you see Wallonia as an independent state? Even if you sort out the Brussels issue, what should it happen with the "German Belgium"?

Well, I think I wouldn't mind Belgium to be split, and Wallonia as an independent state would be nonsense, both culturally and economically. Wallonia would benefit from a greater influence from France and shouldn't be culturaly isolated. The infamous lack of willpower of the Walloons come from the fact they have the subconscious feeling they have been deliberately isolated from greater cultures through the project called "Belgium", and this is the case with the Flemish as well, and this was well formulated by Charles de Gaulle. It would be a psychological boost. As for the economic problem, if the Belgian state is history, I guess the socialist party would be too. I think the German Belgians are like Walloons, they are apathetic, they lack willpower, they "don't care". This comes from the fact the people inhabiting present-day Belgium was never really master of its own destiny, but their belonging to such or such nation was a consequence of wars and foreign treaties, and not a consequence of the people's will, so they became passive and "let things going" unlike the French who got a spirit of revolution and "changing things".

[Exeter]

Do you think Flanders should belong to the Netherlands?

Originally Posted by Dr Fred

Well, I think I wouldn't mind Belgium to be split, and Wallonia as an independent state would be nonsense, both culturally and economically.

[Dr Fred]

Originally Posted by Exeter

Do you think Flanders should belong to the Netherlands?

It's up to the Flemish to decide... The Flemish and the Dutch are quite different people, I can spot them, but they still belong to the same greater Nederlandish culture, yet I don't think they really need each others. It would be a GB/US kind of relationship. George Bernard Shaw said "England and America are two countries separated by the same language", this could be said of Flanders and the Netherlands.

[Exeter]

I see. How can you spot the differences?

Originally Posted by Dr Fred

he Flemish and the Dutch are quite different people, I can spot them, but they still belong to the same greater Nederlandish culture, yet I don't think they really need each others.

[svin]

By accent probably?

[Dr Fred]

Not only the accent, but the behaviour and their appearence.

Dutch are much louder than the Flemish, who are unconspicuous and soft-spoken. Dutch are direct while Flemish are consensual. In some ways their idiosyncracies are diametrical opposites. Physically, the Flemish have less superficially "tall big blond" types you find in the Netherlands, they are more Keltic/Atlantid. An exemple of a typically Un-flemish, typically Dutch appearance is Theo Van Gogh.

The low-profile behaviour of the Flemish could be linked, if you ask me, to what I wrote in an earlier post about Walloons: the Belgian state cultivates a non-culture and a deliberate lack of pride, so they were prevented to be too culturally boastful in order not to disrupt the geopolitical order of things, IMO.

[Lagun]

So Dr Fred you believe that Belgium will fimally split, that Wallonia will join France, the German Belgium will do so with Germany and that Flanders will become an independent state.

Do you think thet in that context, former Flanders city´s occupaid by France, such as Arras, will try to join Flanders?

[Dr Fred]

Originally Posted by Lagun

So Dr Fred you believe that Belgium will fimally split, that Wallonia will join France, the German Belgium will do so with Germany and that Flanders will become an independent state.

Do you think thet in that context, former Flanders city´s occupaid by France, such as Arras, will try to join Flanders?

I am not sure if it will actually happen in short term since the cordon sanitaire to keep Belgium alive is very strong, but let's pretend, I guess this is how it would happen.
As for the French Flanders, my take is it will stay French, even though the Vlaams Belang would ideally like to incorporate them, it's up to them French to decide.
The biggest eventually though, is that Belgium will continue to exist.
Belgium is such a whatever of compromises that you don't know what to expect.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Lagun

Do you think thet in that context, former Flanders city´s occupaid by France, such as Arras, will try to join Flanders?

Actually, the city of Arras is in the county of Artois, not exactly in Flanders :



No to Flemish Imperialism.

But it's, of course, different for cities like Dunkirk, or even Lille, which are historically Flemish.