Origin of the Mediterranid and Nordid sub-races

[Waarnemer]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

Read it again and think again. I will probably post some quotes and graphics later.
If you have better sources which prove the opposte, well, just show them to me, because I consider works which brought up results being more valuable than the idea of "this is not true" which is all you added so far.

just answer the question, do you, or do you not have the ability to understand the non-existing validity and quality of argument in the sources you quote? common sense, stereotypes and personal experiences are no data by definition

but sure i will repeat

i will try to make the following very clear since it appears you lack some basic skills in objectiveness and criticism
wikipedia starts with: They form the core of a theory, developed in the 1940s by American psychologist William Sheldon, associating body types with human temperament types. This linkage is fairly simplistic and is seen as outdated in physiological science, but the account of somatotypes is still probably a valid, if limited way to sort basic body types.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatotype

though i can understand the problematic of restriction and validity of wikipedia: so by a faculty of the Carolina Welseyan College;
http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/301/301lect03.htm
you can find the theory of linking body proportions with neurological behavior under OLD, DISCREDITED IDEAS.

if that’s not enough you can read here;
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal...tivation/6.htm

other than that, his theory doesn’t seem supported by today mainstream psychologists, and even then psychology is a huge term that covers and approaches a lot from behaviorism to experimental psychology and psychoanalysis, we see many thoughts and opinions, honestly too many to take yours for granted, and too many that differ extremely in the believes of behavior and development in individuals in regards of yours, be them ranging from concepts like the black box and pavlov or skinners box to freud’s oedipus complex

Originally Posted by Agrippa

Anthropometry an "outdated science"? Nonsense, anthropometry being used in all fields dealing with humans to objectify data of anatomic peculiarities and proportions if possible, from medicine to modern anthropology. This shows again how valuable acceptable sources are if the reader lacks the background and basic knowledge, because just because certain typological concepts were discredited, mainly by scumbags like Boas, scientists didnt stopped to measure the human body as you HOPEFULLY know...
Typological concepts had a certain problem, mainly because being attacked not just from the scientific but mainly from the political side. But the tide will change and partly already did again because new findings which make the constant denials of people which refuse to accept valid categorisations of people look ridiculous to insane, on the same level like Creationist morons.

i expressed myself in a unfortunate manner according the discussion we have and in light of the somatotype theory it falls under outdated science, linking these body types on cognitive ability is recognized as outdated science, and connections as thus don't exist, they are neurological non-capable for existing, so i will refer to my first post

how cognitive abilities work with and are related to pigmentation and the relative absence of melanin, as long the fail to do that, there is no need for discussion / as long as you can’t explain why and definite it, its useless and laughable

i don't give a shit for your moral crusade, as far as cosmicreality is concerned you are in the same marginal opposition as are creationists

[Agrippa]

i expressed myself in a unfortunate manner according the discussion we have and in light of the somatotype theory it falls under outdated science, linking these body types on cognitive ability is recognized as outdated science, and connections as thus don't exist, they are neurological non-capable for existing, so i will refer to my first post

So hormones dont influence your neurological status and psychological characteristics?

I know that what I said is 'no scientific proofs", but those works I quoted included or were based on such. I expected you to answer the way you did, however, I will post some data and quotations now, mostly from Conrad (1963).

Rough translation from Conrad S. 189:

Originally Posted by Conrad

Additionally one has to consider the [social] selection for intellectual qualities [in the female students] which led to a shift towards the leptomorphic pole [in comparison to average samples of the population]. A sample of students can in Germany never be representative for the average population.

From the same work, after a study of Terry, the sample on which this conclusion is based in detail (female students from Saarland):


Sample of female inpatients, being closer to the average, from Saarland for comparison:


Now I can assure you that this were not the only studies which were done on the subject and in all of them the results repeated itself: Once the selection was based primarily on intellectual qualities, discipline, fanatism, certain versatile sports or military selection, there was a clear shift towards the leptomorphic pole.

For the sport medicine:


The most favourable body types for:
Blue: 5000-10000 m runners
Green: Oarsmen
Red: Free style swimmers

http://www.sport.uni-frankfurt.de/Pe...iomechanik.pdf

Like Conrad stated pyknomorphs mature earlier, being ontogenetically earlier determined, this is no influence which can be eliminated through training or anything the individual does after birth:
http://www.zeitschrift-sportmedizin....Editorial2.pdf
Leptomorphs have a rather critical time in their adolescence, again what Conrad already stated, because they mature later, grow longer, reach as adults later a higher level.

I could post a study in which it was made clear that in certain parts of Britain the military elite and students of universities were by racial type, measurements much closer to Swedes and Icelanders than the common people of the same areas. The most interesting part is still to come: Thats even true for siblings in families! Those going in the fields I meant primarily show a stronger tendency towards a more leptomorphic build.

There were on various fora averages of technical students posted or of high ranking officers, again, the shift is clearly observable, even without studies and exact measurements, its even common sense! However, I could post more material if I really want to show you wrong, but I hope thats not necessary, useless work to prove the obvious! In fact this sentence of mine should be enough:

Originally Posted by Agrippa

So hormones dont influence your neurological status and psychological characteristics?

Sure its not the form of your hand or leg which makes you think this or that way, its the nervous system which goes throughout your whole body and the hormonal factors working on both, personality and body...
Furthermore certain racial types were selected both for specific psychic and physical qualities, this has to mean that we will detect in certain types a higher occurency of lets say higher intelligence (in Eurasians) than in others (Subsaharans). Obviously its "not the prognathy making a Subsaharan dumber on average", but the fact that selective pressures worked on both and reduced f.e. prognathy AND lower intelligence in progressive variants. The same is partly true for the Europoid spectrum too, obviously such traits can be inherited independently. So a mixed individual could show a "crossed inheritance". But the same is not true to the same degree if dealing with growth patterns, nervous system and hormones, because they are there in the individual's phenotype or not and it begins before birth already.

Thats why a Pyknic individual can still be the same even if he would starve to a "leptomorphic BMI" or a leptomorphic individual battened to an at least more "pyknomorphic BMI". This just changed the superficial form, not the structures as such necessarily, even though fat can increase certain hormone levels too. However, if excluding pathological deviations, the heredity and correlations should be clear.

Again, if deciding who would be a student and who a peasant, what would you chose instinctively if comparing these two:
http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?i...stypen2ey8.jpg

Humans associate certain physical traits in a non-degenerated and culturally distorted environment with certain psychic traits anyway and thats not without reason. This is instinctive and gives us clues about "the others" for easier categorisations. F.e. Pyknics tend to smile more often on photographs in an open and friendly manner - just look at the composite. You could look for other samples and psychic tendencies as well, the comparisons with certain animal breeds are clear too...

[Davit H.]

nordic type is branch great mediterranid like atlanto-meds or gracile meds...

Look to nowaday northindids, they are very close to nordics

"I could post a study in which it was made clear that in certain parts of Britain the military elite and students of universities were by racial type, measurements much closer to Swedes and Icelanders than the common people of the same areas. The most interesting part is still to come: Thats even true for siblings in families! Those going in the fields I meant primarily show a stronger tendency towards a more leptomorphic build."

It would be great if you did post the study. This forum has a great Physical Anthropology section, but it would be made better if primary sources were posted. I prefer referencing the study rather than a forum poster; that's no disrespect to anyone here.