Possibility of being pure Anglo Saxon, or pure anything?

[AngloSaxon]

Could someone be of pure Anglo Saxon extraction? I've heard there are such people but they tend to be located in East Anglia and Kent, if it is possible to be a pure Anglo Saxon, what features would such a person typically possess?

Since Anglo Saxons are Angles, Saxons and Jutes I assume they have characteristics borrowed from northern Germans and Danes?

I know the fashionable opinion is that everyone is a mongrel, and I often wonder if the 'margin of error' in DNA tests is a way for people to try to factor in some foreign ancestry for everyone.

[Kernunnos]

They all resemble King Arthur or Geneva, according to their sex, they all can smell the Grail at an incredible distance and must be kept away from everybody looking like Lancelot to avoid troubles.

[Kernunnos]

hm, welcome aboard

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Could someone be of pure Anglo Saxon extraction?
I've heard there are such people but they tend to be located in East Anglia and Kent, if it is possible to be a pure Anglo Saxon, what features would such a person typically possess?

The Anglo-Saxons were and are no race but an ethnic group that got it´s name because the Angels and Saxons were the predominant group, having created an own power structure/kingdoms.

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Since Anglo Saxons are Angles, Saxons and Jutes I assume they have characteristics borrowed from northern Germans and Danes?

Germanics used to live in tribes and tribal areas, some remains of that structures are still present. In Germany you e.g. can find the Frisians, Saxons, Thuringians, Chatti, Franks, Bajuvarians and Alemanni. The native Dutch are mainly descendants of the Franks and Saxons, with a Frisian minority, Belgium is an artificial state, the Flemish are mainly of Frankish origin, Austrians are Germans, mainly of Bajuvarian heritage with some Alemanni in the west, the Swiss-Germans are of Alemanni origin, so are most Alsatians in France, the others like the Moselle-Lorrainers are of Frankish origin. The English when of Germanic ancestry stem from the Saxons and Angels, from the Jutes in minor parts - the Swedes mainly stem from the Svear and Geats, the Danes from the Jutes and Cimbri, those however, like all Germanics, themselves origin from even smaller tribes.
You can see a simplified tabel here (note: it´s from the time of the Völkerwanderung):
Germanische Völker - Germanic Tribes

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

I know the fashionable opinion is that everyone is a mongrel, and I often wonder if the 'margin of error' in DNA tests is a way for people to try to factor in some foreign ancestry for everyone.

Would it bother you to have some Briton ancestors? Would these make you a mongel? (You have Briton ancestors, and these don´t make you a mongrel).

[AngloSaxon]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

The Anglo-Saxons were and are no race but an ethnic group that got it´s name because the Angels and Saxons were the predominant group, having created an own power structure/kingdoms.

Germanics used to live in tribes and tribal areas, some remains of that structures are still present. In Germany you e.g. can find the Frisians, Saxons, Thuringians, Chatti, Franks, Bajuvarians and Alemanni. The native Dutch are mainly descendants of the Franks and Saxons, with a Frisian minority, Belgium is an artificial state, the Flemish are mainly of Frankish origin, Austrians are Germans, mainly of Bajuvarian heritage with some Alemanni in the west, the Swiss-Germans are of Alemanni origin, so are most Alsatians in France, the others like the Moselle-Lorrainers are of Frankish origin. The English when of Germanic ancestry stem from the Saxons and Angels, from the Jutes in minor parts - the Swedes mainly stem from the Svear and Geats, the Danes from the Jutes and Cimbri, those however, like all Germanics, themselves origin from even smaller tribes.
You can see a simplified tabel here (note: it´s from the time of the Völkerwanderung):
Germanische Völker - Germanic Tribes

Would it bother you to have some Briton ancestors? Would these make you a mongel? (You have Briton ancestors, and these don´t make you a mongrel).

Well okay, would it be possible to be pure Germanic?

[Faran]

slightly pertinent

Until recently, modern day Bavarians were thought to be descendants of the Bavarii, who themselves were direct descendants of the (most probably) Celtic Boii, who settled in what is now Bavaria perhaps as much as two centuries before the birth of Christ. The Boii may in turn have also lent their name to Bohemia, an area that has at times been part of Bavaria proper.
Over the last half of the 20th century, historical and archaeological research has increasingly supported the theory that the remnants of the Celtic Boii were absorbed into the Roman Empire and later intermingled with other Germanic peoples who chose to stay (or were stationed by the Romans) in the area. By the 6th c. AD there is evidence of the foundation of a Bavarian Stem duchy whose leadership was related to the ruling Frankish (and possibly Alemannic/Swabian) houses. However, there is no longer any real evidence that the rulers of Bavaria belonged to a people called the Bavarii. It is in fact likely that, after the name of the region became known by the name of its early inhabitants, later settlers became known by the accepted geographical name.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Kernunnos

They all resemble King Arthur or Geneva, according to their sex, they all can smell the Grail at an incredible distance and must be kept away from everybody looking like Lancelot to avoid troubles.

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Well okay, would it be possible to be pure Germanic?

Only if you're Susi. *drinks from 100th grail* I keep finding these bloody things.

[Benen an ynys]

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Could someone be of pure Anglo Saxon extraction?

Since the Angles and the Saxons were ancient tribal groups, I would say that it would not be possible to find people of pure Angle or Saxon extraction in the British Isles today.

[Zyklop]

Originally Posted by Faran

slightly pertinent

You should have given a link to the wikipedia article
Here is more on the Bavarii:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Bavarii were a large and powerful tribe which emerged late in Teutonic tribal times, in what is now the Czech Republic (Bohemia).[citation needed] They replaced, or perhaps are simply another phase of, the previous inhabitants - the Rugians. They swiftly expanded their influence southward, and occupied Austria and the area which still bears their name: Bavaria.

Bavarii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Bavarii also included Markomanni, Thuringian, Langobard and Ostrogoth substrates next to influences by remaining Celts and Romans.

I wonder why the author used the misleading term "Teutonic", though. Seems to be fashionable in the English speaking world. See also "Teutonic Knights" instead of "German Knights"

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Could someone be of pure Anglo Saxon extraction?

Surely not. Keep in mind that England has a very high population density, no real geographic barriers and is strongly industrialised since more than 200 years. No good premises for finding ethnically "pure" examples of a people living 1500 years ago.

[Faran]

Originally Posted by Zyklop

You should have given a link to the wikipedia article

As usual you are right

I wonder why the author used the misleading term "Teutonic", though. Seems to be fashionable in the English speaking world. See also "Teutonic Knights" instead of "German Knights"

Originally Posted by wiki

Official names: Latin: Ordo domus Sanctæ Mariæ Theutonicorum Hierosolymitanorum

Maybe that's why... in Italy we call it Ordine teutonico, and in France and Spain is the same...

[Zyklop]

Originally Posted by Faran

Ordo domus Sanctæ Mariæ Theutonicorum Hierosolymitanorum

So Theuton is simply Latin for Deutsch? Makes sense then.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Zyklop

So Theuton is simply Latin for Deutsch? Makes sense then.

Teuta, Tuatha are germanic and celtic words for people, folk.

[Yago]

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Could someone be of pure Anglo Saxon extraction?

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Well okay, would it be possible to be pure Germanic?

Since you've asked, you must be. Or well, as "pure" as it gets which it should at least mean that you shouldn't have a right to claim any other heritage.

After all, it is very likely that in some areas of Eastern Britain the genocide of indigenous Britons was near to total.

The Saxons and the Angles were pirates, much like the Vikings later. And their early incursions in Britain would have been raids for plunder. But I recall reading somewhere that floods on the coastal settlements of Saxons and Angles pushed them to migrate into Britain (same as when other Germanics crossed the Rhin, pushed by famines, or the Goths crossed the Danube, pushed by the Huns). That would weaken the theory that the Saxons bred with Briton women while killing the men, at least not to an important extent as they would have had a number enough of Saxon females, and would have largely outbred the indigenous Britons.

As an added bonus of information, you are also Continental.

Oh! And a German (more or less).

[Brian Foley]

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Could someone be of pure Anglo Saxon extraction?

Only those persons living inside the Parish of Bognor Regis would be pure Anglo Saxon. That is because it was one of the first place the Anglo-Saxons built as a settlement and since then everyone has kept its distance.



Not hard to imagine why

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

Well okay, would it be possible to be pure Germanic?

You are referring to what? Ethnicity? Culture?
What is your ethnicity anyway? "White" is rubbish.

Originally Posted by Yago

After all, it is very likely that in some areas of Eastern Britain the genocide of indigenous Britons was near to total.

You have evidence for a genocide?

Originally Posted by Yago

The Saxons and the Angles were pirates,

There were pirates, but these ethnic groups as such mainly were farmers.

Originally Posted by AngloSaxon

much like the Vikings later.

Same goes for them

Originally Posted by Yago

And their early incursions in Britain would have been raids for plunder.

What is wrong with raiding the Romans who occupied much of what is now England?

Originally Posted by Yago

But I recall reading somewhere that floods on the coastal settlements of Saxons and Angles pushed them to migrate into Britain (same as when other Germanics crossed the Rhin, pushed by famines, or the Goths crossed the Danube, pushed by the Huns).

The first arrived there under Roman rule, after the Romans had withdrawn the Briton nobles called for Angels and Saxons as they neede them as mercenaries, to fight the Picts and rivals in intra-Briton wars.

Originally Posted by Yago

That would weaken the theory that the Saxons bred with Briton women while killing the men,

A theory that never has been hard anyway. But yes, the Britons either were pushed to the west or assimilated into the Anglo-Saxon realms.

Originally Posted by Yago

at least not to an important extent as they would have had a number enough of Saxon females, and would have largely outbred the indigenous Britons.

This issue is still disputed, like the Roman influence on the Britons.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j617mImHVvk[/media]

Originally Posted by Yago

As an added bonus of information, you are also Continental.

We´re all Africans...

Originally Posted by Yago

Oh! And a German (more or less).

No. Germans are the indigenous people of Germany.

[Faran]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

What is wrong with raiding the Romans who occupied much of what is now England?

Correct me if I'm wrong: didn't the Romans abandon Britain before the Anglo-Saxon invasions? In that case, the target of the raids would have been only the Britons...
Also, didn't the Britons miss the Romans and complain for their leaving? Because it is true that the Romans and the Britons fought hard, but it doesn't seem to me that the Anglo-Saxons were taken as liberators by the native population. And their arrival brought war and devastation, which you didn't have in Roman times.

Then this could be a discussion linked to the current poll, "What gives the right to own a territory?"

The first arrived there under Roman rule, after the Romans had withdrawn the Briton nobles called for Angels and Saxons as they neede them as mercenaries, to fight the Picts and rivals in intra-Briton wars.

I have read the same thing; but what would you think if the immigrants we "need" today as bricklayers called their families and told them to move over here, and eventually used violence to take the power from us?

No. Germans are the indigenous people of Germany

So why did you post a video with that title?

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

The first arrived there under Roman rule, after the Romans had withdrawn the Briton nobles called for Angels and Saxons as they neede them as mercenaries, to fight the Picts and rivals in intra-Briton wars.

Don't be afraid to say Gaels

This seeking overseas help for allies has been a constistent downfall of the insular Celts. First Vortigern in calling in Hengist and Horsa to Britain, and later the King of Leinster enlisting Normans to fight against his fellow Irish which planted the seed for English involvement in Ireland.

Such lessons come at a high price.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

The first arrived there under Roman rule, after the Romans had withdrawn the Briton nobles called for Angels and Saxons as they neede them as mercenaries, to fight the Picts and rivals in intra-Briton wars.

Indeed, the Jutes were invited by the Brythonic king Vortigern as mercenaries, and later, the same with the Angles and Saxons. Britons were fighting Picts, and then Britons ended up fighting the Anglo-Saxons too, whom they themselves had invited inside the door.

[Germanicus]

Being English as i am i can see differences in our white population, we have a big mix of different looking people. Myself i am of Celtic origin, as i look like a great swathe of the population with my brown hair and features and head shape. As there are a great many Celtic looking people in my area you notice men and women who do not fit in with the norm.
Having worked in South east region i noticed indeed the Celtic look more or less equal to fair haired blue eyed people.
My ancestors have lived here in Hwicce, Mercia, for generations, but that does not mean my ancestors originated here.

[Yago]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

You have evidence for a genocide?

If I had absolute evidence, I wouldn't have said "likely". But enough genetic studies seem to point into that direction.

There were pirates, but these ethnic groups as such mainly were farmers.

Well, I'm sure that those who raided the coasts of Britain were not farmers, unless we want to believe that they were searching for new types of crops.

Same goes for them

I think that I've agreed to it many times.

What is wrong with raiding the Romans who occupied much of what is now England?

The Romans? They were gone. Romans left Britain, Gaul and Hispania unprotected, taking the legions to defend the Eastern Empire.

Worse, sometimes Rome even hired Barbarians to replace the garrisons that they were leaving empty, who would sack and then leave the place to look for more to plunder.

The first arrived there under Roman rule, after the Romans had withdrawn the Briton nobles called for Angels and Saxons as they neede them as mercenaries, to fight the Picts and rivals in intra-Briton wars.

It makes you wonder how good an idea it is to invite one home for dinner.

We´re all Africans...

Still Continental Africans.

No. Germans are the indigenous people of Germany.

Well, if I say Germano in Spanish that is the more exact translation of German. And it doesn't have to be a Deutsch, but an indigenous of Germania. Not of modern Germany.

In English I think that you can use German for both an indigenous of ancient Germania, and one of modern Germany. But I'm not sure.