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Physical Anthropology The scientific study of the mechanisms of biological evolution, human adaptability and variation, and the fossil record of human evolution.

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Old Saturday, June 14th, 2008, 20:08
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Question Legitimate Classical Descriptions of Picts, Silures, Vascones?

I'm really interested the more mysterious ethnic groups on the fringes of Europe like the picts, gaunches, silures, et al. I've read descriptions of the Picts supposedly translated from Latin sources decscribing them as red haired, heavy limbed, beetle-browed savages. These descriptions conjure images of some brunn-neandertal upper paleolithic survivor haven; a savage stronghold on the fringe of civilisation. The Silures are sometimes described as the dark, curly haired ancestors of Tom Jones ; ) However, the problem is, how many of these 'racial' descriptions are corrupted or twisted to support 19th century nordicist ideologies? How many original latin descriptions are twisted to suite political purposes at the time? Where does one look, without learning the original latin, to find accurate racial descriptions?

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Old Saturday, June 14th, 2008, 20:46
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Default Re: Legitimate Classical Descriptions of Picts, Silures, Vascones?

So-called physical descriptions is an inlegitimate method of understanding ethnology, in the case of obscure and mysterious peoples and tribes found within the same areas. It is an unacademic approach. Rather, you should look at the anthropological (cultural) characteristics of a people.
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Old Saturday, June 14th, 2008, 21:48
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Default Re: Legitimate Classical Descriptions of Picts, Silures, Vascones?

I don't think that he is asking to understand ethnology through the physical description of ancient from classic sources. Which in any case it would be "proto-ethnology" or "archeo-ethnology". Or am I missing something?
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"In consequence of Kant's criticism of all speculative theology, almost all the philosophizers in Germany cast themselves back on to Spinoza, so that the whole series of unsuccessful attempts known by the name of post-Kantian philosophy is simply Spinozism tastelessly got up, veiled in all kinds of unintelligible language, and otherwise twisted and distorted ..."
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[...] Que a nosotros, que nacimos de celtas y de iberos, no nos cause vergüenza, sino satisfacción agradecida, hacer sonar en nuestros versos los broncos nombres de la tierra nuestra [...]
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Old Saturday, June 14th, 2008, 21:59
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Default Re: Legitimate Classical Descriptions of Picts, Silures, Vascones?

Such classical descriptions would, as such, be in the realm of ethnology before anything, in the descriptions of archaic tribes and ethnic peoples.
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Old Saturday, June 14th, 2008, 22:05
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Default Re: Legitimate Classical Descriptions of Picts, Silures, Vascones?

Like I said, archeoethnology would fit it better.

However, he is asking for physical descriptions, not for descriptions of social habits. Therefore not ethnology at all.
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"…never before has a lack of truthfulness played such a large and important role in philosophy."
"They did whatever they felt like doing with concepts. As if by magic they changed anything into any other thing."
–Ortega y Gasset on German Idealism


"In consequence of Kant's criticism of all speculative theology, almost all the philosophizers in Germany cast themselves back on to Spinoza, so that the whole series of unsuccessful attempts known by the name of post-Kantian philosophy is simply Spinozism tastelessly got up, veiled in all kinds of unintelligible language, and otherwise twisted and distorted ..."
–Schopenhauer on German Idealism


[...] Que a nosotros, que nacimos de celtas y de iberos, no nos cause vergüenza, sino satisfacción agradecida, hacer sonar en nuestros versos los broncos nombres de la tierra nuestra [...]
–Marco Valerio Marcial–
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Old Saturday, June 14th, 2008, 22:26
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Default Re: Legitimate Classical Descriptions of Picts, Silures, Vascones?

I'm not sure if this is the right forum. Let me be specific in what I'm asking.
I'm interested in legitimate classical descriptions of the racial characteristics or phenotypes associated with the aforementioned tribes. To a lesser extent, yes, I am interested in classical sources describing customs such as body painting, dress, weapons, etc.
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Old Saturday, June 14th, 2008, 23:02
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Default Re: Legitimate Classical Descriptions of Picts, Silures, Vascones?

Yes, I think I misread the thread, and forgot the category (physical anthropology). Not my main focus.

Though the only thing I would know that comes near it would be from the Bibliotheca Historica by Diodorus Siculus, but I doubt that it mentions these specific groups, I do know it has mention of other groups in this regard.

Its doubtful how reliable most of classical sources are however.

See this search: the picts physical appearance - Google Book Search
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Old Saturday, June 14th, 2008, 23:26
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Default Re: Legitimate Classical Descriptions of Picts, Silures, Vascones?

Depictions of the picts by the picts themselves show what looks like an indo-european/Iranian profile, though it's open to interpretation as the hilarious Classify Alexander thread shows. In any case, it's worth noting, the pointed beards, and distinct noses, are very similar to scythian art. There are other similarities though; both the scythes and the picts have been described as red haired by classical sources, which was the reason for starting this thread. I question whether these classical descriptions are legitimate portraits of the phenotypes of the people, colourful descriptions by the original authors, or deceptive mistranslations of the original Latin. Granted, a few descriptions of the people, legitimate or not, is not enough to classify an entire ethnic group as a certain type of 'europid' but it's interesting nonetheless.


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