Anthropological types among Croats according to Dominik Mandic(1970)

[Vojvoda]

The Iranic or Irano-Aryan race as a whole is dolichocephalic (long-headed), leptorrhine (having long, narrow noses), tall, robust, dark-haired, large-boned and fair-skinned with straight hair. These features are found amongst the Jats, Pathans, Persians, Rajputs and Kurds. Due to the common features of Iranic skeletons with Nordics, some authorities consider the Nordics and Iranics as belonging to a common Nordic-Iranian macro-race. It is a further strong support for the Iranic origin of Croats that the Croats, and indeed, West Slavs in general, display strong Iranic racial features.

Thus, the majority of Croatians today tend to be tall statured, with narrow facial features. Many historians consider these western Slavic features to be a trait passed on from the Iranic tribes mentioned above. The Alans in particular are thought to have had considerable impact on the Croatian racial "type". Now, there are three sub-types of Croats proper: Dinaric (Iranoid race), Mediterranean (Latinoid race) and Panonian (Slavoid race) The Dinaric type to which many Croats belong is often viewed as an Iranic sub-type:

"In the central mountainous regions settled by the Croats upon their arrival on the Adriatic the Dinaric type of Croat developed. This type is quite remote from the general Slavic type. The Dinaric Croats are tall in stature (ca. 1.8 metres), long-headed but with a skull of short circumference (cephalic index of 80-85)." (Mandic 1970, ch.3)

The main feature of the Dinaric sub-type of Iranics is that the head is long when viewed from front, but the circumference is short, giving the illusion of brachcephaly when viewed from the top. It is common amongst Armenians as well, and is often viewed as a breeding isolate of the Iranoid race.

Refuting the view that the Croatians were of Illyrian or Roman stock, Mandic notes, ".... Nevertheless one has to say that the contribution of the local Romanized remnants [Illyrian] of the prehistoric Dinaric folk, hardly amounted to more than 20% to 30% in forming the Dinaric Croat." (Mandic 1970, ch.3) These Mediterranean Croats are "intermediary in stature, a little smaller than the Dinaric type. They have quite oval skulls, dark hair and eyes and an olive complexion."

The Panonian Croats, however, are largely descendants of the Slavic populations. The Slavoid race in general (to be distinguished from the speakers of Slavic languages) is short-statured, brachycephalic (round-headed), with blond hair. Thus,

"When the Croats conquered Lower Pannonia and Savia they at one began to assimilate with the Kaikavian Slavs of those areas. Out of that came the third type of Croat, the Pannonian, of intermediate stature, blond hair, ruddy complexion and of a rather sizeable cephalic index. .... [A] conspicuous type of Pannonian Croat was preserved up until this day. They of all the Croats are the closest to the general Slavic type in their physical and psychological make-up. (88)" (Mandic 1970)

Thus, the round-headed blond Panonian Croats are not members of the Iranoid race, but instead are of the round-headed Slavoid race. They are, however, outnumbered by the Iranic or Dinaric Croats, who form the dominant element of Croatia

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

Heh, queer nomenclature.

[Pandur]

This article reminds me on Armenoid/Caucasian origins of Serbs

Origins of the Serb People

The proto-Serbs were part of the Caucasian Race much like the Georgians, Mingrelians, Lezghians, Ingush, and spoke a language simmilar to these peoples.

The Serbs were mentioned by Plinius the Younger in the first century BC (69-75) as living on the Black sea and the Sea of Azov as Serboi in his Geographica. In the 2nd century, Herodotus writes in his Persian Wars that Serbs (Serboi, Sirboi - Serboi, Sirboi) live behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea.

In the Caucasus, the homeland of the Serbs, they left their traces around the river Volga (Araxes in Greek). In modern Georgian, that river is called "Rashki". This name was used by Balkan Serbs as a name for their first state and is found wherever the name Serb is found in clusters indicating settlements. It is often used to designate hydronyms and likely meant 'river' or 'water' in Old Serb.

The Serbs migrated in two directions from the Caucasus, nrothwest and northeast. Those who went northwest became overlords to the Slavs. There they established a mighty empire and became slavicized. Konstantine Porfirogenitus called this "White Serbia". Their descendants are known as Lusatian Serbs today and despite immense Germanization, there are still a few thousand left. These we will call 'White Serbs'.

Thus modern Serbs are a hybird of three different peoples and races.

1. Caucasian (Caucasian Dinaric race): Old Serbs.
2. Slavic (Nordic race): from the Slavs with whom they mixed and lorded over in the Blakans.
3. Illyrian (Dinaric Race): from the Illyrians whom they assimilated when they came to the Balkans.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill...1/origins.html

Having migrated from the southern Caucasus to the north, as we can see by the shift in the toponyms northward, we see other Serb toponyms moving eastward towards the Ural mountains and the Kama river and we even find Serb toponyms along Russia's border with China. It would appear that when the Serbs left the Caucasus region they split into two groups moving in seperate directions. One moved into the southern Ukraine and along the Carpathians into Northern Europe the other eastbound to the base of the Ural mountains. We see a string of Serb toponyms from there moving westbound along the Volga and another string on the same longituide moving eastbound deep into Siberia. Along the coast of the Sea of Japan there are two towns named 'Serbia' and two other towns named after the Serb toponym Rashka (a name the Serbs took to them wherever they went; it is distinctly Serb and NOT SLavic, it might have meant river, this would explain the many HYDRONYMS derived from 'Rash' in Poland, Germany and Russia where Old Serbs settled).

Serb toponyms aren't thrown around Europe and Asia randomly, they are often in rows and lines one after the other, moving in a particular direction:

1. northwestt from the Caucasus along present the Crpathians into Central Europe.
2. northeast from the Caucasus to the Urals into Siberia.
3. from the Urals westbound to Central Europe.


It is wisest to conclude that diverging SERB toponyms mark the path various Serb tribes took while they were migrating from the Caucasus to Europe and Asia. Interestingly the migrations are not in accordance to Slavic migrations, thus implying that Serbs were overlords to the Slavs and migrated and existed vis-a-vis the Slavs.

Here are the locations of Serb toponyms in alphabetical order:

Sarbai 58N 49E 152 498
Sarbaktuy 51N 116E 557 1827
Sarbala 53N 87E 232 761
Sarbala 60N 43E 111 364
Sarbalin 54N 74E 103 337
Sarbalyk 55N 76E 110 360
Sarbayevo 55N 45E 249 816
Sarbay 51N 57E 412 1351
Sarbay 52N 56E 182 597
Sarbay 53N 51E 198 649
Sarbay 54N 56E 145 475
Sarbay 58N 49E 152 498
Sarba 55N 76E 110 360
Sarbiya 52N 57E 696 2283
Serbilovo 56N 40E 157 515
Serbinka 51N 43E 181 593
Serbinka 52N 36E 246 807
Serbino-Vedenyapina 51N 43E 175 574
Serbino-Vedenyapino 51N 43E 175 574
Serbinovka 54N 73E 128 419
Serbinovskiy 49N 40E 183 600
Serbino 53N 40E 160 524
Serbino 58N 28E 55 180
Serbin 45N 38E 16 52
Serboyan 55N 83E 155 508
Serbilovo 56N 40E 157 515
Serbinka 51N 43E 181 593
Serbinka 52N 36E 246 807
Serbino-Vedenyapina 51N 43E 175 574
Serbino-Vedenyapino 51N 43E 175 574
Serbinovka 54N 73E 128 419
Serbinovskiy 49N 40E 183 600
Serbino 53N 40E 160 524
Serbino 58N 28E 55 180
Serbin 45N 38E 16 52
Serbiya 51N 37E 209 685
Serbiya 52N 57E 696 2283
Serbiya 64N 142E 564 1850
Serbolovo 57N 30E 94 308
Sorbala 60N 43E 111 364
Sirbishina 57N 60E 218 715
Sirbishino 57N 60E 218 715
Srbce 49N 17E 328 1076
Srbce 49N 16E 397 1302
Srbce 50N 15E 194 636
Srbetsch 50N 13E 330 1082
Srbe¡ 50N 13E 330 1082
Srbice 49N 13E 487 1597
Srbice 49N 13E 433 1420
Srbice 49N 14E 495 1624
Srbice 50N 13E 207 679
Srbsko 49N 14E 270 885
Srbsko 50N 15E 317 1040
Srbská Kamenice 50N 14E 318 1043
Srbská 50N 15E 354 1161
Srby 49N 13E 407 1335
Srby 49N 12E 399 1309
Srby 50N 14E 426 1397
Srbín 49N 14E 439 1440

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill.../toponyms.html

[Pandur]

Originally Posted by Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski

Heh, queer nomenclature.

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

Originally Posted by Pandur

Dinaric (Iranoid race), Mediterranean (Latinoid race) and Panonian (Slavoid race)

Not really the most common terms.

[Pandur]

Word 'queer' can be used offensive (gay) and its not the most common term describe a Franciscan priest in Croatia. In Herzegovina there was a folk custom to throw those who offend a friar off the cliff.

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

Originally Posted by Pandur

Word 'queer' can be used offensive (gay)

1. Deviating from the expected or normal; strange: a queer situation.
2. Odd or unconventional, as in behavior; eccentric. See Synonyms at strange.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=queer

and its not the most common term describe a Franciscan priest in Croatia.

I was talking about his nomenclature...

In Herzegovina there was a folk custom to throw those who offend a friar off the cliff.

You mean he could be a a paedophile and still be beyond criticism? What a shame...

[Pandur]

Originally Posted by Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski

You mean he could be a a paedophile and still be beyond criticism? What a shame...

There was no pedophilia inside the church prior to 20th century.

[Vojvoda]

Originally Posted by Pandur

There was no pedophilia inside the church prior to 20th century.

How do you know?

[Vojvoda]

Originally Posted by Pandur

This article reminds me on Armenoid/Caucasian origins of Serbs

Or what about the Iranian and supposed Turkic origins of Croats according to Karatay but I won't post garbage

[Polak]

Originally Posted by Pandur

Word 'queer' can be used offensive (gay) and its not the most common term describe a Franciscan priest in Croatia. In Herzegovina there was a folk custom to throw those who offend a friar off the cliff.

Queer doesn't mean homosexual unless explicitly used as such.

At all other times, it means strange.

Learn some English and try not to be wound so tight.

I reckon we might see you on the news one day, for all the wrong reasons, if you catch my drift.

[Pandur]

Originally Posted by Vožd

Or what about the Iranian and supposed Turkic origins of Croats according to Karatay but I won't post garbage

Turkic origin of the Croats is the work of Turkish 'scientists'. But Serbs have their own Turkish/Avar theory about the origins of Serbs: http://www.geocities.com/protoillyrian/serb.html

[Pandur]

Originally Posted by Polak

Queer doesn't mean homosexual unless explicitly used as such.

At all other times, it means strange.

Learn some English and try not to be wound so tight.

Main Entry: 1queer
Pronunciation: 'kwir
Function: adjective
Etymology: origin unknown
1 a : WORTHLESS, COUNTERFEIT <queer money> b : QUESTIONABLE, SUSPICIOUS
2 a : differing in some odd way from what is usual or normal b (1) : ECCENTRIC, UNCONVENTIONAL (2) : mildly insane : TOUCHED c : absorbed or interested to an extreme or unreasonable degree : OBSESSED d (1) often disparaging : HOMOSEXUAL (2) sometimes offensive : GAY 4b

[Polak]

Originally Posted by Pandur

That's what you get when you learn to speak a language from a book.

You should get out more...travel a little, meet some people....and RELAX.

[Vojvoda]

Originally Posted by Pandur

Serbs have their own Turkish/Avar theory about the origins of Serbs: http://www.geocities.com/protoillyrian/serb.html

Sure

A well-known Croatian historian Niko Županić wrote in his “The First Croats” the following:

“I believe that the first Croats were not Slavs but a foreign people from Asian Sarmatia, who in the Great Migration of Peoples found themselves in Transcarpathian Slavic homeland, and having absorbed a certain number of people from other tribes they started calling themselves Croats.”

Nada Klaić, a historian, finds that Avars made up a rather big part of the first Croatian populations:

“Croats found Avars in possession of that province (Dalmatia). After they engaged in wars against one another for some time, Croats triumphed and slaughtered some of Avars while forcing others to assimilate. From then on, that province was ruled by Croats. One can find descendants of Avars in Croatia even to this day.”

[Zrinski]

Vožd isn't it a bit unfair to reply to Pandur when he is banned and unable to reply to you?

Anyway Nada Klaic is IMO a charlatan. She has ridiculous claims and theories.
Regarding Zupanic I think his theory is more to the point that we think.

[White Falcon]

A bit unfair heh,
how brave from him , to reply and attack him with slurs when he is banned and not able to retaliate, typical Serbian, someone with bad intentions might say.
And after probably he had his share in Pandurs banishment.

Originally Posted by Vožd

Sure

A well-known Croatian historian Niko Županić wrote in his “The First Croats” the following:

“I believe that the first Croats were not Slavs but a foreign people from Asian Sarmatia, who in the Great Migration of Peoples found themselves in Transcarpathian Slavic homeland, and having absorbed a certain number of people from other tribes they started calling themselves Croats.”

Nada Klaić, a historian, finds that Avars made up a rather big part of the first Croatian populations:

“Croats found Avars in possession of that province (Dalmatia). After they engaged in wars against one another for some time, Croats triumphed and slaughtered some of Avars while forcing others to assimilate. From then on, that province was ruled by Croats. One can find descendants of Avars in Croatia even to this day.”

Well at least Asians do have pleasing aesthetics to some point,
which can't be said for your Serbo-Turkish-Gypsy "race".

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

@White Falcon:

What do you think posting pictures of aesthetically challenged individuals will achieve?

How about this butt-ugly excuse for a human being?