Blonde mongoloid children.

[zemelmete]

Your comments?

Kazakh:


Khanty:




Nenets:





Aleut girl:

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Zemelmente has done some great work documenting blonde Mongoloids once and for all. Forgive me if I do not recognize these place names. Are these within Europe?

There is no doubt but that Meds have a blonde mutation rate if no actual blonds were even present in the breeding population. But why would this be so for Mongoloids? Blondism can be tied to latidude, vitamin D, and diet. Diet means agriculture -- living from grain as a staple food. Most circumpolar Mongoloids do not live on agricultural means. So the question is why they would ever be blonde?

Zemelmente, can you tell us anymore about the life-style of these Mongoloid blonds?

[zemelmete]

Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff

Zemelmente has done some great work documenting blonde Mongoloids once and for all. Forgive me if I do not recognize these place names. Are these within Europe?

Those aren't place names. Those are names of ethnicities. And they are from Asia (more precise - from Siberia and kazakh girl from Central Asia)

Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff

There is no doubt but that Meds have a blonde mutation rate if no actual blonds were even present in the breeding population. But why would this be so for Mongoloids? Blondism can be tied to latidude, vitamin D, and diet. Diet means agriculture -- living from grain as a staple food. Most circumpolar Mongoloids do not live on agricultural means. So the question is why they would ever be blonde?

I think blondism among these children indicates ancient caucasian admixture (expect aleut girl, who seems has recent caucasian admixture). In some western siberian nations (such as khanty, mansi, nenets etc.) fair-haired children are very common. When they turn adult side, hair colour usually changes into dark hair colour.

Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff

Zemelmente, can you tell us anymore about the life-style of these Mongoloid blonds?

Well these people are from different asian nations with different traditions and cultures. But one thing appears to all of them: they have nomadic or semi-nomadic life-style. They live in tent-like constructions which can be easely removed and transported. Central asians (kazakhs, mongols etc.) traditionally breed cattle and horses and live in kers (i think you at least once have seen mongolian tents in some picture). Siberians instead cattle breed reindeers and live in chums (teepee-like tents). Eastern siberians live also in yarangs.

[Ross]

Several thousand years ago Siberia up to Baikal and Central Asia up to NW China was Caucasoid.

Kazakhs and Siberians still carry plenty of Caucasoid DNA and have visible traces of Northern European admixture.

[Agrippa]

This child appeared in a documentary in which was proven that she has Europid-Indoeuropean admixture at least from the maternal side. She is a descended of late Kurgan-Sarmation people most likely which were strongly influenced by a (East-) Cromagnid type.

[Milesian]

On the whole however, I was under the impression that a person doesn't need some ancient Caucasian admixture to be blonde. Isn't Blondism present in some Australids too?

[Carnyx]

Yes but many have light eyes. A specific caucasian feature.

Could it be due to :

- remote caucasian admixture (?)

- some kind of mutation, adaptation (?)

Or could it be a population tied to both Europids and Mongolids. Sort of proto-Europids.

[Agrippa]

I referred to this girl which falls into the Aralid category (Tungid-Europid mixed), of course light pigmentation might occur without Europid admixture from time to time in various populations, too.

[zemelmete]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

I referred to this girl which falls into the Aralid category (Tungid-Europid mixed), of course light pigmentation might occur without Europid admixture from time to time in various populations, too.

Yes, some populations have generally fairer pigmentation without caucasian admixture, but it just means that they have, for example, brown hair colour instead black. Blonde hair are indicator of caucasian admixture I believe. And as in the case of australian aborigenes (and some subsaharian african tribes too) I can say that they had blonde hair due malnutrition and it wasn't genetic inherited blondism.

Anyway it's interesting to see how light pigmentation is combined with non-caucasian features.

[zemelmete]

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Yes but many have light eyes. A specific caucasian feature.

Could it be due to :

- remote caucasian admixture (?)

- some kind of mutation, adaptation (?)

Or could it be a population tied to both Europids and Mongolids. Sort of proto-Europids.

If to speak about western siberian populations (nenets, khanty, mansi etc.), they surely have strong ancient caucasian admixture. Interesting that in khanty folklore (balades, fairy-tales etc.) very often are mentioned people with very fair hair colour (usually it is called "golden" or "white"). They aren't mentioned as foreign people, nor blondism is somehow glorified or showed some other kind of special attitude. It means that khanty people with such hair colour were very common in remote times. Perhaps ancestors of ob-ugrians (khanty and mansi) were light pigmented, then later they mixed with siberian aborigenes (first of all with samoyeds (nenets, selkups etc.), what can explain why there are blonde people too) . Knowing that ob-ugrian languages are finno-ugric languages, it could mean that finno-ugrian speakers originally were light pigmened and only later eastern groups, due mixing with turanids and siberians, turned darker in pigmentation.

I don't know about central asians (kazakhs etc.) so much, but I believe, how wrote Ross, that this region was occupied by caucasians in remote times and later they mixed with arrived mongoloid tribes.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Milesian

On the whole however, I was under the impression that a person doesn't need some ancient Caucasian admixture to be blonde. Isn't Blondism present in some Australids too?

I posted a few pictures of blondism in Australoids here:
Blondism in Australian Aborigines

I also attached pictures of blondism (and rufism) in Melanesia, here:

Blondism in Melanesia

but the attachments were lost with that (in)famous software upgrade.

[Menydh]

I have searched around, and managed to reposition the pictures of blonde people from the Solomon Islands:
Blondism in Melanesia

If I find more, I'll reposition the pictures from Rossell Island and Papua. I've read about blondism present in Bismarck Islands too.

And here there are some more blonde Australoids: http://www.geocities.com/refuting_ke...d_austral.html

[MisterSinister]

Originally Posted by zemelmete

It means that khanty people with such hair colour were very common in remote times. Perhaps ancestors of ob-ugrians (khanty and mansi) were light pigmented, then later they mixed with siberian aborigenes (first of all with samoyeds (nenets, selkups etc.), what can explain why there are blonde people too) . Knowing that ob-ugrian languages are finno-ugric languages, it could mean that finno-ugrian speakers originally were light pigmened and only later eastern groups, due mixing with turanids and siberians, turned darker in pigmentation.

This is most likely true and also supported by genetics.
The darkness and mongoloid features of some finno ugrian speakers is the result of later admixture into these groups by Siberian and Asian peoples.

[aherne]

People of proto-Uralic stock were fully European in racial stock and with a very high frequency of blonds. These traits have been passed to yeniseian-uralic hybrids when their ancestors crossed into Siberia, producing odd combinations such as these. Incidence of blond hair is higher among Nenets (who are more mongoloid than white) than among peoples of Southern Europe. Ugrians, on the other hand, are no less blond than Germans: ash blond to brown is by far the most common color combination.

Kazakhs are mongoloids of variable purity. Blond Kazakhs are extremely rare and may not suppose White admixture. The girl depicted is fully mongoloid, as far as I can tell...

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by aherne

Kazakhs are mongoloids of variable purity. Blond Kazakhs are extremely rare and may not suppose White admixture. The girl depicted is fully mongoloid, as far as I can tell...

What is this 'white' that you're talking about?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by aherne

People of proto-Uralic stock were fully European in racial stock and with a very high frequency of blonds. These traits have been passed to yeniseian-uralic hybrids when their ancestors crossed into Siberia, producing odd combinations such as these. Incidence of blond hair is higher among Nenets (who are more mongoloid than white) than among peoples of Southern Europe. Ugrians, on the other hand, are no less blond than Germans: ash blond to brown is by far the most common color combination.

These two posts might be of interest: What is Uralid? & What is Uralid?

[Señor Malo]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

This child appeared in a documentary in which was proven that she has Europid-Indoeuropean admixture at least from the maternal side. She is a descended of late Kurgan-Sarmation people most likely which were strongly influenced by a (East-) Cromagnid type.

I agree, the same that gave light pigmentation to some Tarim basin mummies