250 Spanische Freiwilligen Division

[Erasmus]

They fought against Communism for our Faith and Europe, don't forget them!:

250º Spanische Freiwilligen Divission - "Blaue Divission"



General Muñoz

[Agrippa]

Seems to have been a good selection of people. I heard that my step-grandfather spoke positive about them.

[Galaico]

SIEMPRE EN NUESTROS CORAZONES...

[Freebooter]

I wasn't aware of any such division. Thanks for the info!

Does anyone know if the Portuguese had any involvement?

[Menydh]

I'm reading an article by historian Pío Moa ("liberal" and revisionist), from which I would highlight the following paragraph:

"[...] They [the Soviets] declared General Muñoz Grandes and some Spanish fighters "war criminals". However, for all we know, the behaviour of the Divisionarios with the Russian civil population was good [...] Some years ago a number of veterans made a tour through the places where they fought as young men, and the old people of those places received them with great affection."

This is a small summary which supports the stories that I've heard from an old man who was a young medical officer in the Blue Division, of a great Christian spirit and who had only the warmest memories and words to say of the Russian population.

Thank you for your courage of heart and your nobility of spirit.

¡Honor y Gloria! ¡Siempre Presentes!

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Vasconcelos

Does anyone know if the Portuguese had any involvement?

Yes, there were a few Portuguese in the Blue Division. If I recall correctly, they were former volunteers from the Spanish Civil War. I believe that they first joined the Spanish Legion and then went on to the Blue Division from there.

I posted something over a year ago.

Edit: portugueses en la division azul

[Freebooter]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Yes, there were a few Portuguese in the Blue Division. If I recall correctly, they were former volunteers from the Spanish Civil War. I believe that they first joined the Spanish Legion and then went on to the Blue Division from there.

I posted something over a year ago.

Edit: portugueses en la division azul

Ah, much thanks! Looks like I've got some reading ahead of me.

[Ferran]

I have found a very rare document showing the volunteers of Madrid when leaving the city. Look at their faces, some of them are full of determination, while others express admirable tranquility, but interestingly enough, most of them are happy. Of course I won't forget them.

+ YouTube Video

[svin]

Interesting banner in this video clip: "Voluntarios Falangistas Contra "Rusia"".

"Rusia" in quotation marks means?..

[Menydh]

It means that though it reads "Russia", it was meant "Soviets" or "Communism".

The Soviets had a strong implication in the Spanish Civil War through the Spanish Communist Party. Think of the strategic value of having a Communist country in the Iberian Peninsula.

When the war against Russia was declared, Prime Minister Serrano Súñer blamed it on Russia (Rusia es culpable). The Spanish volunteers are said to have gone to Russia "to return the visit" to the Soviets. It was seen as a "Crusade against Communism".


Edit: during the Civil War in Spain, the Communists cried "Viva Rusia" as they believed that Soviet troops would be sent in to Spain. Instead there were only commissaires who tried to help the Communists to take control of the Republican side.

[svin]

It means that though it reads "Russia", it was meant "Soviets" or "Communism".

Thought so too.

I also understand that Franco allowed volunteers on Eastern Front as reward for "Legion Condor"?

[Menydh]

There is much speculation around that.

I believe that the Legion Condor was not "free of charge" for Spain. There was some price paid in minerals.

Also, there is a chapter during the war in Russia where the Spanish were told to help a garrison of Germans surrounded by Russians. A unit of 228 Spanish men had to cross during 10 days through the frozen Lake Ilmen (sp?) at -50ºC. They took 6 villages and freed the Germans, but only 12 of them remained alive. After that, General Muñoz Grandes told Hitler "Spain has paid the debt of blood that she had with Germany".

[Gladstone]

Quite an interesting thread. Yes, the Spanish Azul Division's attack certainly was upon Communism and not the Russian people.

[Eurovox]

Originally Posted by Vasconcelos

Ah, much thanks! Looks like I've got some reading ahead of me.

As Mynydd said theres was some portuguese volunteers in the Blau Division. Jean Mabire and others appointed a number of 60. There is also other sources, like Henri Landemer book "Waffen SS" (portuguese version in Edições Ulisseia, colecção Corpos de élite), saying that after Blau Division retreat from Russia, some 300 spanish soldiers satyed in order to keep fighting the soviets. Amongst them there was a bunch of portuguese and these ones formed the so called Green Legion. Both spanish and portuguese were mostly incorporated in the french Charlemagne Division.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Eurovox

Amongst them there was a bunch of portuguese and these ones formed the so called Green Legion. Both spanish and portuguese were mostly incorporated in the french Charlemagne Division.

I've never heard of any Portuguese staying after the withdrawal of the 250 Division. Are there any sources that confirm this?

I am far more interested in the presence of the Portuguese in the Tercios. Especially in the Old Tercios, which were the unit elites of vanguard and were formed exclusively with Spanish soldiers. Do you have any knowledge of that?


With regards to the Spanish volunteers after the withdrawal of the 250 Division, there were problems with the German military authorities. Namely with German classic bureacratric mind.

It wasn't about those who had stayed, but many who crossed the border to join. I read that the Germans organized a recruitment post and instruction camp in France, for further Spanish volunteers. General Franco forbid any Spanish from leaving Spain. To join, some had to go as far as to fight against the Guardia Civil and army units in the Spanish border.

The problem with the instruction camps is that the Spanish volunteers were all veterans of the Spanish Civil War and some were former 250 Division veterans. They had a better knowledge of combat than the Germans who pretended to train them for war.

Fed up with this slow bureaucratic mind, some ran away from the camps to try to join the combat units on their own.

[Eurovox]

Mynydd, besides that reference I mentioned above (Waffen SS, henri landmer) I also have an old french magazine called "Historia" where jean mabire also mentioned portuguese waffen SS. Also in one issue of NSDAP/Ao newspaper "New Order" they published a list of nationalities who fought in the Waffen SS and once again portugal apeared there. However, I asked Richard Landwher, US especialist in the III Reich forces during WWII, if he would have any type of documentation mentioning portuguese Waffen SS, and he replyed negatively.

As for the presence of Portuguese in the Tercios, unfortunately I do not have any information about it.