"When Titans Clashed. How the Red Army Stopped Hitler"

[Herac]

http://www.mfa.gov.by/eng/index.php?d=belarus&id=6

[Menydh]

Interesting.

The German plan for quick victory was based in part on the assumption that large portions of the Soviet population would welcome liberation from Stalinism. This assumption appeared justified in the first euphoria of the German onslaught. Most Latvians and Lithuanians, as well as significant numbers of Ukrainians and other subject nationalities, were at least cooperative if not enthusiastic about the change of regimes. Regardless of nationality, many older residents of European Russia remembered the hard but bearable and "correct" German occupation of 1917-1919 and were inclined to wait on events rather than abandon their homes to become refugees.

[...]

Perhaps a lesson for those who trade ideology and/or cult of the man for nation.

It happened to Napoleon in Spain too. He thought that the Spaniards would welcome him as a liberator. A huge mistake that marked the beginning of the end for Napoleon. In his final days he is recorded to being obsessed by the thought of not understanding why the Spanish people didn't see him as a liberator who brought new ideas.

Here you can say that blood is thicker.. at least thicker than ideas or ideologies, which are thinned among other things by their natural time-to-live.

[Herac]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

It happened to Napoleon in Spain too. He thought that the Spaniards would welcome him as a liberator. A huge mistake that marked the beginning of the end for Napoleon. In his final days he is recorded to being obsessed by the thought of not understanding why the Spanish people didn't see him as a liberator who brought new ideas.

Our dear good Napo. My blood boils when I think on the great things he have left for Venethia and Tyrol. The (damn) immigration to americas was one of the consequences.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Here you can say that blood is thicker.. at least thicker than ideas or ideologies, which are thinned among other things by their natural time-to-live.

Ideas and ideologies are things that people put into our minds - like clouds, they come, leave it's mark and then it flows away. Blood is much more significant... it's our nature, and it's have been part of us since the beggining of times and will be part of us 'til the obliteration of ourselves as a colective.

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Interesting.Perhaps a lesson for those who trade ideology and/or cult of the man for nation....

Here you can say that blood is thicker.. at least thicker than ideas or ideologies, which are thinned among other things by their natural time-to-live.

That's a bit remindful of something alluded to in the movie Enemy at the Gates. They showed the commisar at Stalingrad in September and October of 1942 coming up with the idea of "giving the men hope" by "bringing back the army newspaper" and "giving them heros" rather than abusing their own men as the Reds had been doing. While the general idea of the movie is correct, it is historically inaccurate in the sense that already by July 1941 (within a month of the German invasion) similar ideas were already then being adopted by the Reds....ie the bringing back of military rewards from the Czarist era and the idea of fighting for "the Russian motherland". Prior to that the Soviet army had been surrendering quite literally by the million...to be sure this was in large part due to the surprise nature of the attack but also a large part of it was simply the peoples that made up the Soviet Union had realized Communism was not worth crap, let alone their own lives. The leadership that made up the Soviet Union saw this too and did what was generally anathema to them, that is they told their people the truth.....and what was really important fighting for.

[Agrippa]

A nation and people without good ideas can get a victim of the time and people with stronger convictions and ideas very fast. One is nothing with the other and whats a "national victory" in a war worth if the result is the decline of the own people and race on the long run? Thats truly against nature. I might add, that I really hate this sentence: "Right or wrong, my country."
Thats what might be called "Hurrah Patriotism" after the German word for it. Everything what the own leadership in the name of the nation is saying is right and "Hurrah for..." Now I know that nobody here meant it that way, but its worth to mention it, because others could conclude this from the above. A "Patriotism" without good ideas has no value and a nation without a good idea and system will lose on the long run with or without Patriotism. Every ethnic group and finally nation is, if looking at the big picture, a structure which has a duty like everything cultural - to fill the gap between instinctive insecurity and the needs of a biological unit to survive. The main duty is survival of the biological unit and development for gaining higher potential and higher security for survival - probably even expansion if possible. Again, if f.e. the culture of a nation became counterproductive from the biological and cultural developmental perspective, it has to be changed or the whole nation must be restructured for being adaptive again - never should traditions seriously hamper the first duties of a cultural system which are based on the human realities and biology. The tradigenetic potential of a social unit (f.e. ethnic group, nation etc.) can be as important for the survival as the biogenetic one, the first has to serve, secure and improve the later, which in turn should improve the first in an ideal case which secures the survival and development of both as well as the well being of the greatest possible number of individuals in the respective system.

Speaking about the concrete example:

There were many problems for the German army in Russia and they made various mistakes and had partly bad concepts for the Eastern Slavs, which led to certain negative effects. However, one of the main factors for negative reactions was the partisan war with its guerilla tactic, led by fanatic Communists which even killed their own people if necessary to provoke further reactions of so far undecided, neutral or even pro-German people of the occupied Soviet Union. The Partisan war was cruel and can't be considered a "national revolt".
However, if all European ethno-racial-cultural become bastardised and finally a minority in their own homelands the former victories of national units of the past will not save any nation. So finally its about ideas too, because to put it simple: The best hardware will fail with the wrong software - same is true for humans, the best humans will fail with the wrong culture, system and ideas and those which understood that should rather try to help those which recognised this problem too and try to improve things rather than defending something instinctively which is a dead end and might just help the big enemies, be it natural, systemic or human ones, to finally erradicate the whole developed racial and (healthy, rest of a healthy) cultural unit.

Obviously the crucial question is which value and benefit certain ideas have for an ethno-racial-cultural unit even from an objective point of view...but to think that way is oftentimes the doubtful privilege of a minority.
Most people decide on a gut level and influenced by their social environment without considering the logical consequences of "traditions" (which can be rather young in some cases too! F.e. some Liberal principles can be considered "young traditions" in some areas of the world already) they might defend nor the rational pros and cons of certain principles for both the individual and the collective.