Holocaust Unknown Among Young Germans, according to survey

[Nerthus]

Holocaust Unknown Among Young Germans

One young German in two does not know what the Holocaust was, according to the results of a survey released Friday.

Read article

[Ekwanakt]

I wonder that 51.4% believes to idiotic Holohoax.

I don't believe in it, because i don't believe in blood geysers (Elie Wiesel), to gas chambers great 25 mq. who hospited 800 jews every time (Wirth), and to similar witnesses!

[henerte]

the figure was only 51.4 percent among Germans under the age of 24.

Were infants also interviewed?

Die Welt showed that in every age group, women (21.3 percent) were twice as likely not to recognize the term "Holocaust" than men (9.9 percent)

Now that's interesesting!!!

The telephone survey was ....

I bet the most common answer was "Lay off man! I'm eating dinner"

[White Falcon]

The nazi's didn't do this?

[Menydh]

How many "millions" do you count there?

Those there obviously died from malnutrition, which is not all that strange since it is what is likely to happen on a concentration camp during a war that is lasting long years. At some point food supplies are in shortage because there is a halt in production, and there is a priority to feed the population and the army first. Not something that they invented.

So that's one story (most probably the nearest to the true story). And then there is another story..


By the way, notice in the pictures how the corpses have been piled up and, in the first picture, how the two skulls have been conveniently placed for a shocking pictorial effect.

[Arjuna Durden]

The title of this thread greatly surprised me because I thought the opposite was more likely to happen. I have personally experienced how German people of all ages can be haunted and caused either brief trauma digns or deep feelings of collective criminal guilt by simply watching some documentary of fictional movies or by listening to the simplistic comments of average ignorant people.

The last of these scenes I have witnessed last Friday: A German girl, an Anglo-Saxon and I went to watch the German film “Der Untergang” (The Downfall). After the movie, which greatly surprised me because of the heroic depictions of most German military personnel and militia fighting among the ruins of Berlin, we witnessed how a couple of young German girls, probably tertiary students, went rapidly into the restrooms, one of them crying and in the process of having a nervous breakdown. Our German female friend had to go to the toilets too (not that we sent her as “scout” ). When she came back, she reported to us how both girls were crying, one of them repeating sentences like: “how could it be possible?” “how could WE do all that?” and others alike. This was not the first time I witnessed such scenes or reactions. In my humble opinion, most of it could be defined as collective guilt induction and traumatization of the German people.

So, what the news opening this thread is actually saying is something like “please, we need more propaganda and psychological pressure upon the younger German, lest they begin to see history in a non post-traumatic or tauma-induced way”.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

The bodies in the picture above are dehydrated, go back and look at them. This is caused by disease, not gas. At the end of the war disease was the cause of death in all the work camps.

Are these people Jews? In every camp's statistics I have seen, Jews were not in the majority, anywhere, and did not make up the greatest number of deaths by "nationality" as those records were kept.

Where were the real death camps? In my lifetime there has been a naming by Zionists and then a recanting of that claim followed by a new camp as the big death site. I have never seen any record of any K-Z camp in which a million deaths occurred. Most, such as Buchenwald were slightly over 100,000. But hidden in that figure was the fact that most deaths at Buchenwald were post-war deaths when the camp was run by the Soviets and the dead were Germans. As I recall during the war it was 52,000, post-war 58,000. As with other camps, Jewish deaths were way down on the list.

Why would young Germans, or anyone else for that matter, involve themselves with something which, by any analysis, is a false assurtion? Do most young Germans believe in Santa Claus?

The "Holocaust" is a religious fairy-tale. It is right there with Moses parting the Red Sea. If we could get into a time machine and get out 5,000 years from now, the Holocaust will be part of the Old Testament of the Bible. Someone ought to tell the Jews mentioned in this article that non-Jews are under no obligation to pay lip-service to someone else's dogma.

[Scoob]

Originally Posted by Arjuna Durden

The last of these scenes I have witnessed last Friday: A German girl, an Anglo-Saxon and I went to watch the German film “Der Untergang” (The Downfall). After the movie, which greatly surprised me because of the heroic depictions of most German military personnel and militia fighting among the ruins of Berlin, we witnessed how a couple of young German girls, probably tertiary students, went rapidly into the restrooms, one of them crying and in the process of having a nervous breakdown. Our German female friend had to go to the toilets too (not that we sent her as “scout” ). When she came back, she reported to us how both girls were crying, one of them repeating sentences like: “how could it be possible?” “how could WE do all that?” and others alike. This was not the first time I witnessed such scenes or reactions. In my humble opinion, most of it could be defined as collective guilt induction and traumatization of the German people.

Are you sure they were expressing Holocaust guilt? Der Untergang did not show anything about the death camps: it was focused on Berlin as the Red Army closed in. It was really about the final, hopeless days of the Third Reich. Perhaps the German girls were overcome by seeing their nation in such shambles and such a hopeless position (old men and young boys throwing grenades at tanks).

[Nerthus]

With all the 'Holocaust' propaganda - and I am not speaking only about Germany, but about many other countries - I find it impossible for one not to know what this word means, and especially not to know what Auschwitz is.

Joshcka Fischer, Germany's foreign minister stated that "We cannot and may never evade our historic and moral responsibility for Auschwitz".
Last month, a day after the inauguration of the new Holocaust museum in
Jerusalem, he also said Germany's name was inextricably linked with the Shoah, during a conference.

More by him on the Holocaust:

"With the expulsion and murdering of German Jews, Germany permanently destroyed an essential part of its cultural identity, and this wound pains us to the present day."

"We cannot recall too often the utterly incomprehensible crime of the
murder and expulsion of German Jews by the Nazis. Not only because our
country bears the moral and historical responsibility for this crime
against humanity, but also and in particular because it is our own
memory, our collective memory of ourselves and how we were permanently
maimed by Hitler and his crimes"

"The trail of blood Hitler and the Nazis' anti-Semitism left began
with the disgraceful Nuremberg race laws and led, via the pogroms of 9
and 10 November 1938, to the Shoah, the genocide perpetrated against
German and European Jews. All this occurred in Germany, at the hands
of Germans. This all occurred at the centre of Europe, in plain public
view."

Schröder himself also believes that "[...] that these memories belong to our
national identity."

60 years after the end of World War Two, hardly a week goes by without hearing of something Holocaust related in the media, whether it's a movie or a historical documentary, an article and so on. Indoctrination concerning this issue has become a habbit. People find it hard to believe it did not really happen because they grew with the thought that it always was that way.

[Cristoforo]

With all the 'Holocaust' propaganda - and I am not speaking only about Germany, but about many other countries - I find it impossible for one not to know what this word means

My thoughts exactly. One needs to see exactly who financed this survey. It's clear they want to use it as a lever for pushing more propoganda.

Even my German penfriend remarked that the German youth are suffering from holocaust-induced guilt and cannot get over it. So how could it be possible that 1 in 2 young Germans never heard about the holocaust?

[Menydh]

Sometime during the early 90s, some people I knew organized a revisionist conference at Chelsea Hall, London. The speakers there were Irving, Zündel, and one other French revisionist historian. There was a fourth guest.

I was asked to help with the organisation and I went to pick up the French historian. While at the conference, I was behind the curtains with this fourth guest speaker. I can't remember his name.

The story was that the Jewish lobby community in London had pressed on the British Government to not allow him to enter the UK. He had to fly incognito from the US to France, from where he was smuggled by car into Britain via Calais. We were told that he would try to speak, but that if the police showed up we shouldn't intervene.

British police showed up as soon as he started to speak, took him away and deported him.

I had the chance to talk to the guy while behind the curtains. He was a scientist who had worked as an expert in extermination methods for the US Government. What I gathered from what he told me was that the US Government paid him to do research on the different methods to execute people in the US.

On one occasion he was given a grant to do a research on the gas chambers in Auschwitz. According to him, he could not find any trace of the Zyklon-B chemical there. I said well, but of course that would have been many years ago and all traces would have vanished by then. He said that 50 years later and beyond, if that substance had been used in those "chambers", he would have found traces in the walls, ceilings and floor, and in the pipes, through the analyses he performed in situ. He did tests on other possible substances, and again without any luck.

Further, he said that the entire system of pipes and rooms was not fit for a gas chamber, but for showers.

He returned to the US with his report, and handed it to the government. He wasn't a political man, so he didn't bother to draw any political conclusions. Some time later, when he tried to access that report for reveiwing it, he found out that it had been filed and classified, and he was denied access to it.

I did try to find out what his political beliefs or sympathies were. The man was most uninterested in politics. And he had had no interest in nazi stories until that happened (and still was), but he decided to give public evidence since he thought very strange that his report had been classified amidst secretism.

[Ekwanakt]

I don't care about asslickers like Joschka Fischer (red terrorist in '70, is he jew?), but for the effects of this stupid propaganda.

They make see some dead corps, were they gassed?
The major part of deads were in the late '44, because allies "liberators" bombed more and more the Germany and occupied territories (concentration camps incluse!), and in the general worst of hygenical state, the jews too died in the camps. But didn't exist any plan of exterminium (or volkermord, or like you wanna call!).

Greatest example: Wannsee: in the opinion of the exterminationists (morons who want to make believe us holohoax existed) the document firmed in this quartier of Berlin was a proof of exterminational will of nazis. Read it: there isn't any proof!

We can continue with infinite proofs, but I say to you to see the revisionist sites (or, at least, those not yet censored: they would have any need of censure them, if the revisionists lied, but the revisionists say the truth, this menaces a font of money for jews, excuse me, the "remembrance", so they censure!).

[fael]

Originally Posted by Arjuna Durden

The last of these scenes I have witnessed last Friday: A German girl, an Anglo-Saxon and I went to watch the German film “Der Untergang” (The Downfall). After the movie, which greatly surprised me because of the heroic depictions of most German military personnel and militia fighting among the ruins of Berlin, we witnessed how a couple of young German girls, probably tertiary students, went rapidly into the restrooms, one of them crying and in the process of having a nervous breakdown. Our German female friend had to go to the toilets too (not that we sent her as “scout” ). When she came back, she reported to us how both girls were crying, one of them repeating sentences like: “how could it be possible?” “how could WE do all that?” and others alike. This was not the first time I witnessed such scenes or reactions. In my humble opinion, most of it could be defined as collective guilt induction and traumatization of the German people.

Seems obviously to apply to many Germans especially the juvenile Generation, who are suppressed by this doctrine, that it is supremely our fault, that we on the one hand lost the war, and on the other hand are claimed to have annihilated 6 Million Jews.

Now again it is beaten into our head via the Media at all possible times. Just switch the German TV on (I´m in dubio, that it is much better in other european countries, but still this delusion culminates in Germany) an you'll definately fall across several programms either mentioning the "Holocaust", or warning about the risk, that a new persecution of Jews might arise from the "evil" activities of "Neo-Nazies", which seem, according to the TV (etc.), to be the biggest threat towards the peace and merriment of nowadays Germany.

Hence it doesn't astonish me, that said girls, described by you, act like they did, even if most people wouldn't show their emotions so publicly, they represent, modern-day youths and their view of Nazi Germany just as perfect. This resembles and shows the outcome of this indoctrination lasting already years many and having infected and infiltrated, by now, nearly all social layers of my kinsfolk.

Originally Posted by Christoforo

One needs to see exactly who financed this survey.

Thus it is the most momentous question, one must ask, in order to have the true intention of this survey revealed. I suspect it was either financed by some government institution or one of its sub-divisions!

Originally Posted by scoob

Are you sure they were expressing Holocaust guilt? Der Untergang did not show anything about the death camps: it was focused on Berlin as the Red Army closed in. It was really about the final, hopeless days of the Third Reich. Perhaps the German girls were overcome by seeing their nation in such shambles and such a hopeless position (old men and young boys throwing grenades at tanks).

I think they might have been "shocked" by all the more or less gruesome pictures, which are to be seen, in "The Downfall/der Untergang" and then automatically conclude, that this (the cruelty) all just happened, since of the Germans, who initially "began" the war and thus are to blame for everything, what happenened during the war.

Originally Posted by Ekwanakt

I don't care about asslickers like Joschka Fischer (red terrorist in '70, is he jew?), but for the effects of this stupid propaganda.

Upsetting enough, that such a villain is actually still granted to be vice-chancellor of Germany...
No I don't think he shows much resemblance with Jews, but still he indeed pends on their goodwill, and is hence to be labelled a traitor...

[fael]

"Joschka":





This one including "Frau Wieczorek-Zeul" ...

[Arjuna Durden]

Originally Posted by Aeternitas

Joshcka Fischer, Germany's foreign minister stated that "We cannot and may never evade our historic and moral responsibility for Auschwitz".

Last month, a day after the inauguration of the new Holocaust museum in
Jerusalem, he also said Germany's name was inextricably linked with the Shoah, during a conference.

More by him on the Holocaust:

"With the expulsion and murdering of German Jews, Germany permanently destroyed an essential part of its cultural identity, and this wound pains us to the present day."

"We cannot recall too often the utterly incomprehensible crime of the
murder and expulsion of German Jews by the Nazis. Not only because our
country bears the moral and historical responsibility for this crime
against humanity, but also and in particular because it is our own
memory, our collective memory of ourselves and how we were permanently
maimed by Hitler and his crimes"

"The trail of blood Hitler and the Nazis' anti-Semitism left began
with the disgraceful Nuremberg race laws and led, via the pogroms of 9
and 10 November 1938, to the Shoah, the genocide perpetrated against
German and European Jews. All this occurred in Germany, at the hands
of Germans. This all occurred at the centre of Europe, in plain public
view."

Schröder himself also believes that "[...] that these memories belong to our
national identity."

60 years after the end of World War Two, hardly a week goes by without hearing of something Holocaust related in the media, whether it's a movie or a historical documentary, an article and so on. Indoctrination concerning this issue has become a habbit. People find it hard to believe it did not really happen because they grew with the thought that it always was that way.

Could you please provide the sources of these quotes? I'd very much like to know who said what, when and where -if possible.

One of the reasons why I'd like have the sources of these quotations is that Zapatero's loony left in Spain is presently trying to traumatize Spaniards in a similar way by means of "comming to terms" with the Franco regime.

[Nerthus]

Yes.

Here is an old article about Schröder:

Schröder says all Germans must take blame for the Holocaust

Luke Harding in Berlin
Wednesday January 26, 2005
The Guardian

The German chancellor Gerard Schröder yesterday used a commemoration of the liberation of Auschwitz 60 years ago to declare that ordinary Germans were responsible for the Holocaust. Speaking in front of an audience which included several Auschwitz survivors, Mr Schröder said that the horrors of the concentration camp could not be explained by merely blaming the "demon Hitler".

"The evil of the Nazi ideology did not come out of nowhere. The brutalisation of thought and the lack of moral inhibitions had a history," he said. "One thing is clear: The Nazi ideology was willed by people and carried out by people."

Mr Schröder's ground-breaking admission for a German chancellor came as world leaders gathered in neighbouring Poland for tomorrow's 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, and amid confusion in Germany over how to deal with the country's newly resurgent far right.

Germany's red-green coalition government has faced calls to ban the neo-Nazi National Party of Germany (NPD) after several members staged a walkout last week during a minute's silence for Holocaust victims.

Mr Schröder delivered a stinging attack on right-wing extremists, declaring that Germany had not seen the last of anti-semitism. Germany had a "moral obligation" to keep alive the memory of the Nazis' crimes and he urged Germans to remain vigilant so that the horrors of Auschwitz were not repeated.

"It can't be denied that anti-semitism still exists," he said. "Fighting it is the task of the whole of society. Anti-semites should never be allowed to threaten or hurt Jewish citizens, not just in our country - and to bring shame upon our nation," he said at Germany's official commemoration of the anniversary, organised by the international Auschwitz committee.


Germany's neo-Nazi right has always enjoyed some support, but now appears to be better organised and more professional. Last week the NPD's leader Holger Apfel told the Saxon parliament in Dresden that Britain and other western allies during the second world war were "mass murderers".

They had caused a holocaust of Germans by bombing the city, he said. The NPD made an unprecedented electoral breakthrough last September, winning 9% of the vote and 12 seats. Yesterday Mr Schröder urged all parties to combat "new Nazis and old Nazis".

He also reminded Germans that they bore a special responsibility' for the Holocaust - even though the overwhelming majority of Germans now alive bore no guilt.

After the commemoration, a senior Jewish leader accused Europeans of trying to forget the past. Israel Singer, the leader of the Jewish World Congress, also made a thinly veiled attack on Prince Harry for turning up at a fancy dress party dressed as a Nazi.

"While apologists clamour Holocaust fatigue, deniers receive open forums to spread their lies ... We are experiencing insensitivity towards the Holocaust by Europe's younger generation. Sometimes from the highest and most important families," he said.

The most moving part of the commemoration, held in a Berlin theatre, came when two elderly Auschwitz survivors gave personal accounts of what had happened to them in the death camp.

In his speech the chancellor pointed out that Germany now had a flourishing Jewish community, which was Europe's third largest. But he added: "This doesn't change the fact that these memories belong to our national identity."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/secondworl...398760,00.html

And here is a more recent article related to the inauguration for the new Holocaust museum.

Fischer confirms German duty to Israel's security

16 March 2005

JERUSALEM - German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer on a visit to
Israel on Wednesday affirmed Germany's special responsibility towards
the Jewish state.

Speaking a day after the inauguration of the new Holocaust museum in
Jerusalem at a conference on the memorial site, Fischer said Germany's
name was inextricably linked with the Shoah.

He said: "We cannot and may never evade our historic and moral
responsibility for Auschwitz".

"Yad Vashem ... is a place of deep shame for any German, because the
name of my country, Germany, is and will forever be inseparably linked
to the Shoah, the ultimate crime against humanity," he said.

Relations with Israel touched on the founding princi