Multiculturalism in the Waffen SS and the WW2 Wehrmacht?

[Menydh]

I found these pictures and some discussions in the forum Axis History, here and here.

Dutch Indonesian in the Waffen SS


Koreans in the Wehrmacht


Other nationalities included Japanese, Turkmenistanis, Thais, Koreans, Chinese, Mongolians and others.

More pictures and information here:
Alvin\'s Wehrmacht Homepage - OstBattalion43 - Wartime Picture Gallery - Asiatic soldiers in German service during WW2
Alvin\'s Wehrmacht Homepage - OstBattalion43 - Wartime Picture Gallery - Asiatic soldiers in German service during WW2


Apparently there was also a Waffen SS brigade of Tatars:
Axis History Forum :: Tatar Legion

[Strengthandhonour]

This has been discussed before I believe.
I found this video though

+ YouTube Video

Also, there is the old tale that Himmler made a division with Hindus. He thought that they must have some aryan blood in them. The whole thing just ended up with an entire regiment retreating during their first attack :-)

[Der]

I wouldn't call it Multiculturalism, they were volunteers fighting against globalization, by fighting with the III Reich they were defending their own identities.

An independent India could be established if the III Reich was to win the war, in particular the Japanese used pro-Indian independence propaganda against the British during the war.

There is a difference between mutual respect and cooperation between races and the total disrespect and uniformization that the current world order is trying to establish, with globalization as a weapon, trying to erase all type of cultures, races, and religions with the only aim of establishing a world without any sort of identity and thus “creating” humans who’s only aim in life is to try and win as much money as they possibly can.

+ YouTube Video

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

This has been discussed before I believe.

Only with regards to Muslims in the Waffen SS.

Originally Posted by Der

I wouldn't call it Multiculturalism, they were volunteers fighting against globalization, by fighting with the III Reich they were defending their own identities.

Not that they would have known what globalization is about.

Trying to explain it in terms of globalization and ethno-racial preservation is colourful, I admit it. But it is far from the reality of those years. Germany needed troops and those men would have had different reasons to fight in the war. It's a market where demand meets supply. This is not a critique, it is as it has always been throughout history. Some Central Asians the idea of fighting against Russia.

Like it or not, it is lawful to use the word multiculturalism here even if it should not be overstated.

[Strengthandhonour]

I agree with Mynydd.
Let's also remember for example that Mussolini considered himself the protector of Islam. Of course he only made this claim in hope to get support from muslims in British colonies and hoping they would rebel. He also did this to get the colonial troops to feel more inspired to fight for the Italians. I am sure if the third reich truly cared about this individuals they woudln't have murdered dozens of people in Central Asia and India just to study their racial phenotype, right?

[Erasmus]

Freies Indien:



Handschar (Bosnian volunteers):



Black SS:



Chinese volunteers:



Agree with Der, these patriots fought against the Internationalist ideologies (Communism and Capitalism). A multiracial army is not the same that a multiracial society

[Menydh]

Of course that it is a kind of multiculturalism. But because it is the nazi army it must be called something different..

I must have read hundreds of times critiques against the employment of colonial troops by other countries, made by the same kind of people who here would object to not a critique but a simple comment or remark.

You call them "patriots"? How much of a "patriot" is a Korean fighting in an army which is allied with Japan, which had Korea invaded?

[Leland Gaunt]

This is an oxymoron. Were those people fighting for Aryan superiority? lawl




And this germanic-indonesian half-breed fighting against globalisation and comunism? By definition he is result of this multi-culturalism himself.

[Marcus Marulus]

There were even Tibetans in the Wehrmacht.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Erasmus

Black SS:

It ain't a SS. LVF (Wehrmacht)

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Strange because a Franco-vietnamese man fought in the LVF after he was dismissed from the Charlemagne. I think the only non-Europeans who have ever fought in the Waffen SS were Indians.

Fascists were somewhat multikulti too. Even though he was not a fascist, Franco used Moorish soldiers in Spain.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

It ain't a SS. LVF (Wehrmacht)



Strange because a Franco-vietnamese man fought in the LVF after he was dismissed from the Charlemagne. I think the only non-Europeans who have ever fought in the Waffen SS were Indians.

Fascists were somewhat multikulti too. Even though he was not a fascist, Franco used Moorish soldiers in Spain.

They just were forbidden fom racially mixing with us.

And most of them were grateful to Italy.

[Kernunnos]

I hate to be picky but apart from the dutch - indeonesian the others are all wearing regular army (wehrmach) uniforms or auxliary corps ones.

Sorry, waffen SS were reserved to popuation effectively deemed aryans: there were even resistance at acceping Degrellel's french belgians at the beginning, and the italians who joined the 29th SS were not allowed until the very end of the war to wear german badges, just red SS like badges.

As of their uniform, they wore regular italian uniform from old stocks and the italian helmet, generally looking very shabby and destitute: just after a valiant fight they were allowed into the real SS with the honor of carrying the SS silver badges, but it was already spring 1945.

In short, eiter they were considered half aryans ... or they were not trusted as italians (this damned obstinate germans, god knows why they couldn't trust us).

All in all, foreigners of non certain or non-existant aryan heritage were attached to the regular Army or to militarized support oranizations.

[Breogan]

Look at the pics: SS units have "the eagle" on the left sleeve, Wehrmacht (Regular Army) on the chest.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Strange because a Franco-vietnamese man fought in the LVF after he was dismissed from the Charlemagne. I think the only non-Europeans who have ever fought in the Waffen SS were Indians.

From what I've been able to gather, Heinrich Himmler was eager in that the Waffen SS were a European army, whereas Hitler resented that they were not Germans or Germanics. So Hitler agreed to forming SS units of non Germanics (out of necessity, interest, whatever you want to call it) but their naming would be different. Those made up by Germans or Germanics had the name of Waffen SS Division, whereas the non Germanic were named Waffen Division der SS.

The Charlemagne was one of the Division der SS: Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Charlemagne.

It is often argued by the usual suspects that the Germanic divisions were elites in the Waffen SS. And indeed this was the theory. However, in the practice, the records of units like the Charlemagne, the Wallonien, or even non SS units like the Blue Division tell of a much different story.

Fascists were somewhat multikulti too. Even though he was not a fascist, Franco used Moorish soldiers in Spain.

Arguably so. Those were colonial troops. Part of my family, including my grandfather and his brother, served as officers in Regulares in Africa at one time or another.

If you want to argue about multiculturalism in Franco's army, a better story is that of General Mohamed ben Mizziam. He was the son of a Kabyle chief from the Rif, who became a general in the Spanish army.

However, when his daughter married without his consent to a Spanish captain, Mizziam opposed because he intended to marry her with a Muslim. When the newly married couple travelled to Tetouan, Mizziam had her kidnapped sending her to Tangier and him back to Spain. There were complaints in the military for his action, but Franco supported him and they couple never saw each other again.

Finally, Mizziam retired from the Spanish army and returned to Morocco, where he organized the army there. He was also appointed ambassador of Morocco to Spain.

But by then Franco had realized the danger of having a Muslim element in Spain, and he dismissed his Moorish Guard. Franco was an Africanist (i.e. a military man in the colonies of N. Africa), not a multiculturalist.