Basque faces, anthropologic plates, description

[Ferran]

Xabi Alonso, footballer:


María Quintanal, aim shooter:


Félix Iñurrategi, mountain climber:


Aitor González, ciclist:


Iñigo Landaluze, ciclist:


Naroa Agirre, athlete:


Joane Somarriba, cliclist:


Roberto Laiseka, ciclist:


Aitor Osa, ciclist:


Marina Arruti, golfist:


Isidoro Gastañaga, boxer:


José Mari Bakero, ex-footballer:


Andoni Goikoetxea, ex-footballer:


Juan Carlos Unzué, ex-footballer:


Javier Clemente, ex-national team coach:


Julio Salinas, ex-footballer:


Athletic Club de Bilbao squad:


Some pelotaris:

Imanol Agirre:


Julián Albizuri:


Arturo Arbizu:


Iker Arretxe:


Aritz Begino:


Rubén Beloki:


Aitor Bengoetxea:


Pablo Berasaluze:


Iñigo Díaz:


Andoni Eguskiza:


Jokin Errasti:


Iñaki Eskudero:


Juan de la Coca:


Iñigo Leiza:


Aratz Mendizabal:


Oier Mendizabal:


Asier Olaizola:


Aimar Olaizola:


Iñaki Otxandorena:


Patxi Ruiz:


Kepa Peñagarikano:


Rai Mundo:


Ricardo Tirapu:


Oier Zearra:



More coming soon...

[Linus]

Interesting, my maternal grandmother and her sister looked almost exactly like this woman, they had more Berid admixture than her however.



Their father came close to this man's look, from Aragón:



Another case like this:
http://dodona.proboards35.com/index....8276160&page=1

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by Linus

Interesting, my maternal grandmother and her sister looked almost exactly like this woman, they had more Berid admixture than her however.



Their father came close to this man's look, from Aragón:

Really curious, besides the comparison with the man from Aragon makes a lot of sense, I say it because the Aragonese have always mantained a strong relation with the Basque and Navarrese peoples, one proof is that the Kingdom of Aragon was born as independent kingdom thanks precisely to one of the greatest Navarrese kings of all time, Sancho III "the Great", that after his death, gave the Kingdom of Aragon to one of his sons (the same did with Castile, so before that, both territories could have been considered as Navarrese), and well, as a curious note, such actions fed the saying that during a century, all Spain was ruled by Basques.

But an even more interesting fact, is that Basque was spoken in Aragon until the X century, although progresively substituted by the Aragonese language (a Latin language with strong Basque substratum plus some Occitan influences) since the VIIIth, also, our intra-national stereotypes (would be nice to start a thread about that ) also make Aragonese look very similar to Basques. And well, all that also explains why still today there are so many Aragonese with Basque surnames, the most famous example could be Enrique Ortiz de Landázuri, singer of the extint band Heroes del Silencio:



Or Victor Ullate Jr., actor:


But let's not forget either the big representation of Basque surnames in all Spain, mainly due to the process of repopulation that hundreds of Basque families leaded after the Reconquista (more concretelly of the reconquered lands of Castile and Leon), the most famous examples I can recall (leaving aside the infinite number of García's) are the following politicians:

Esperanza Aguirre, ex-president of the Autonomous Community of Madrid:


Ana Palacio Vallelersundi, ex-minister of foreign affairs:


Juan Carlos Rodríguez Ibarra, president of Extremadura:

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Ferran

Xabi Alonso, footballer:


María Quintanal, aim shooter:


Aitor González, ciclist:

These have no typical Basque family names, and while some may have some Baskoid traits I would say that they are not representative of Basque types.

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

These have no typical Basque family names, and while some may have some Baskoid traits I would say that they are not representative of Basque types.

Now I have searched about them and you are totally right about Aitor González (his second surname is Jiménez), but María Quintanal has a Basque second surname (Zubizarreta) and Xabier Alonso too (Olano).

[Breogan]

Mynydd is right. At least almost the half of your examples are not valid, Ferran, for your proposes.
They are people living in Basque Country, but sons of Castilians and other parts of Spain parents.
Even Baroja was not complete Basque. Note, Pío Baroja Nessi (Italian mother), Ramón García, Andoni Ferreño, Mamen Mendizabal from Madrid and so on.
Of course the pelotaris are good examples, they usually belong to old autochtonous basque families in rural areas.

I think the best example Ferran posted is Joseba Etxeberria Lizardi, guipuscoan football player. You see this man and you think he must be Basque when you look at his face.

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by Breogan

Mynydd is right. At least almost the half of your examples are not valid, Ferran, for your proposes.

At the same way Coon's weren't either I guess.

They are people living in Basque Country, but sons of Castilians and other parts of Spain parents.

And what the Castilians are?

Even Baroja was not complete Basque. Note, Pío Baroja Nessi (Italian mother), Ramón García, Andoni Ferreño, Mamen Mendizabal from Madrid and so on.

Ramón García was born in the Basque country and his surname is Basque, however, you are right about Andoni Ferreño, because although he was born in the Basque country, his surname is actually Galician (I should have investigated more ). About Mamen Mendizábal, I guess she could be one of the typical Castilians with Basque surname, a clear sign is that her surname has the tonic syllable accentuated, something alien for the Basque Mendizabals. And about Baroja, I didn't know that, but well, he still looks Basque.

Of course the pelotaris are good examples, they usually belong to old autochtonous basque families in rural areas.

Ruiz, Escudero, de la Coca, Mundo, Díaz... are they good examples too?


Btw, I remember you had some pictures of the Ertzaintza's members, could you post them here too?

Thanks in advance.

[Breogan]

Originally Posted by Ferran

At the same way Coon's weren't either I guess

Coon's examples are not valid because he just put exotic types; not only for the Basques btw. Even biased examples I would say.

And what the Castilians are?

People of pure and noble breed.

Ramón García was born in the Basque country and his surname is Basque

Well, I heard him telling his parents went to Basque Country for working, and he was born there. His complete name is Ramón García Hernando.
García is a surname spread all around Spain, not exclusive from Basque People; like López and so on.

however, you are right about Andoni Ferreño, because although he was born in the Basque country, his surname is actually Galician (I should have investigated more ). About Mamen Mendizábal, I guess she could be one of the typical Castilians with Basque surname, a clear sign is that her surname has the tonic syllable accentuated, something alien for the Basque Mendizabals.

You shouldn't take my word in vain

And about Baroja, I didn't know that, but well, he still looks Basque.

You can look for pictures of young Baroja in Google, doesn't look Basque to me.

Ruiz, Escudero, de la Coca, Mundo, Díaz... are they good examples too?

Well, we are talking about phenotype, right? Basque Surnames don't guarantee having a Basque phenotype, but it must be conditio sine ecuanon for our investigation. In other way it would be casual.
There are Basques with 32 Basque surnames and more without a clearly Basque phenotype, although this is not very probable of course.
But remember Arana, he didn't look Basque particularly.

Btw, I remember you had some pictures of the Ertzaintza's members, could you post them here too?

It should be in this post or this section, but not remember.

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by Breogan

Coon's examples are not valid because he just put exotic types; not only for the Basques btw. Even biased examples I would say.

Yeah well, anthropologic plates tend to show people with really extreme features, although I have to admit it went a little too far with the Basque examples he did chose, I say it because they aren't exactly "extreme" nor typified (something that, by the way, I would atribute to Javier Gurruchaga), but rather "strange". Anyway, Basques are not an easy group to make general descriptions about.

People of pure and noble breed.

Actually, I was referring to their origins as self-identified people.

Well, I heard him telling his parents went to Basque Country for working, and he was born there. His complete name is Ramón García Hernando.

Uhm, thanks for clearing it up, but now that we are at it, I also would like to know if you have some information about the birthplace of Amparo Larrañaga and Antonio Zabálburu, I ask because I always thought they were Basque (as their surnames), but the fact is that the only evidence I have is that they are Spanish, besides the detail of the Antonio's surname accentuation, quite unusual for a Basque native.

García is a surname spread all around Spain, not exclusive from Basque People; like López and so on.

Indeed, according to a census from 1999, García is -by far- the most common surname in Spain:

1. García - 1.378.000 personas (3,48%)
2. Fernández - 851.000 (2,15%)
3. González - 839.000 (2,12%)
4. Rodríguez - 804.000 (2,03%)
5. López - 796.000 (2,01%)
6. Martínez - 788.000 (1,97%)
7. Sánchez - 725.000 (1,83%)
8. Pérez - 709.000 (1,79%)
9. Martín - 459.000 (1,16%)
10. Gómez - 440.000 (1,11%)

You can look for pictures of young Baroja in Google, doesn't look Basque to me.

He reminds me of Carod Rovira on this one.

Well, we are talking about phenotype, right? Basque Surnames don't guarantee having a Basque phenotype, but it must be conditio sine ecuanon for our investigation. In other way it would be casual.

Yeah, that was exactly my point. In fact, Basque phenotype is not even restricted to the Basque country, I'm of course referring to the study of José Aranda (in which used demographic sources from 1991 and genealogical data from 1998), which showed that the presence of Basque surnames in the rest of Spain was 4,2 times higher than in the very Basque country and Navarre together, that altough taking into account the difference between both territorial extensions, it doesn't minimize it's impact.

So well, in 1991 there were 827.706 Basque/Navarrese peoples with one or more Basque surnames (a 47% of the entire B/N population, being Guipuzkoa, with a 58%, the province with more Basque surnames), while in the rest of Spain there were 3.550.416 peoples with at least one Basque surname, or in other words, a 15% of the non-Basque/Navarrese Spaniards could have a strong Basque affinity.

But remember Arana, he didn't look Basque particularly.

Hardly he could have looked as something he never represented.

It should be in this post or this section, but not remember.

I haven't seen it on this thread, so it must be in this section.

[Breogan]

Originally Posted by Ferran

Uhm, thanks for clearing it up, but now that we are at it, I also would like to know if you have some information about the birthplace of Amparo Larrañaga and Antonio Zabálburu, I ask because I always thought they were Basque (as their surnames), but the fact is that the only evidence I have is that they are Spanish, besides the detail of the Antonio's surname accentuation, quite unusual for a Basque native.

Amparo Larrañaga is not Basque but from Madrid, her surname comes from a great or grandfather that moved there.
On Antonio Zabalburu I have no information, sorry, but I read he was called Andoni Zabalburu before acting in "Hospital Central" , and this could be a clue.

Here in Galicia we also have People with Basque surnames, like Zumalde, Letamendi and so on. This can be traced to the XIX century when their father-side ancestors came to this land. And the same occurs in the case of Catalan surnames like Doménech, Puig and so on.
All related to the early industrialization of Galicia, powered, in part, by these Basque and Catalan industrial men.

[Euclides]

Originally Posted by Ferran

Indeed, according to a census from 1999, García is -by far- the most common surname in Spain:

1. García - 1.378.000 personas (3,48%)
2. Fernández - 851.000 (2,15%)
3. González - 839.000 (2,12%)
4. Rodríguez - 804.000 (2,03%)
5. López - 796.000 (2,01%)
6. Martínez - 788.000 (1,97%)
7. Sánchez - 725.000 (1,83%)
8. Pérez - 709.000 (1,79%)
9. Martín - 459.000 (1,16%)
10. Gómez - 440.000 (1,11%)

.

Iberian surnames finished in EZ ( Spain ) or ES ( Portugal ) are considered from visigothic origins.

The question about the Basques is that, instead they are a specific population with their own culture and language and particularities, they don´t differ a lot anthropologically from other iberian populations, because they are not a homogenous groups, and also because they have the same basic racial origins/racial amalgamation that formed Iberians in general :the robust Mediterranean type gracilized and altered by neolithic expansion (from N Africa ), dinaricized/alpinized by bell beaker and selective pressure ( mountains ),and finally a small influence by IE invaders ( celtic tribes , gerrmanics ).One thing that differe them from others iberians is the low or absent admixture inside the basque group with black africans ( slave trade ) and Moors/Jews in historical times.

[Euclides]

Annals of Human Genetics
Volume 69 Page 665 - November 2005
doi:10.1046/j.1529-8817.2005.00170.xVolume 69 Issue 6

Temporal Mitochondrial DNA Variation in the Basque Country: Influence of Post-Neolithic Events
A. Alzualde1, N. Izagirre1, S. Alonso1, A. Alonso2 and C. de la Rúa1,* SummaryThe Basque population has been considered an outlier in a large number of genetic studies, due to its hypothesized antiquity and greater genetic isolation. The present paper deals with an analysis of the mtDNA variability of the historical population of Aldaieta (VI–VII c. AD; Basque Country) which, together with genetic data existing for other prehistoric populations of the Basque Country (4,500–5,000 YBP), permits an appraisal of the hypotheses proposed for the origin of the genetic differentiation of the Basque population. Given that this is an aDNA study, application has been made both of standard precautions, to avoid contamination, and of authentication criteria (analysis of duplicates, replication in an independent laboratory, quantification of target DNA, sequencing and cloning of PCR products). The variability of the mtDNA haplogroups of the historical population of Aldaieta falls within the range of the present-day populations of Europe's Atlantic fringe, whereas the prehistoric populations of the Basque Country display clear differentiation in relation to all others. Consequently, we suggest that between 5,000–1,500 YBP approximately, there may have been gene flow amongst the western European populations that homogenised mtDNA lineages.
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The prehistoric populations of the Basque Country, were situated between two groups (Europe and Near East), cromagnids and agriculturalists.A lower frequency of J has been displayed in the present-day Basque population, but in certain prehistoric populations from the Basque Country and in the historical population of Aldaieta, the presence of this haplogroup is similar to the rest of the European populations .
Basques are not pure cromagnid descendents.