Give some examples from the West Mediterranean area

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Vojvoda

These two look like they're from the Balkans.

Perhaps they are, Montpellier is a big city, they might have some Balkanoid admixture (there are significant Serbian, Bulgarian and Albanian communities here).

[Vojvoda]

They're everywhere

[Yago]

In Monpelhier too? We'll drive you out of Occitania once we take care of the French immigrants there!!!

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Vojvoda

They're everywhere

Unfortunately... Balkanoid? It's because of the guy's haircut, some GI joe hair style. However his chain is typically "southish" France.

In Monpelhier too? We'll drive you out of Occitania once we take care of the French immigrants there!!!

Yeah Montpellier, and what about these bad frankish-occitan seeds? Halfcasts to drive out?

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Kohler

I think she resembles to Selena (the next one with silicone in her lips ), but I don't know how to situate her, because this singer is Cuban. As for Vanessa, I would say west-Andalusia (Sevilla, Cádiz...).

Ho, ho, I can remember this song, it really sucked! Silicon... which one?

Catalans are fair enough to be compared to Occitans. Andalousians are maybe swarthier, but chicks are hot there.

[Yago]

Originally Posted by M.Duchemin

Yeah Montpellier, and what about these bad frankish-occitan seeds? Halfcasts to drive out?

Easy.. first Reconquista ... then, Edicto de Expulsión.

Catalans are fair enough to be compared to Occitans. Andalousians are maybe swarthier, but chicks are hot there.

Claudi Martí, cantautor (folk singer) occitan.. with some Occitans. They could easily belong here..



He sings in Lengadocian, Castilian and Catalan. Here you have two beautiful sample songs in Lengadocian (hope you are able to understand):

http://www.claudemarti.com/disques/disques.html

On the left box, click on "Occitania!" and you'll see a new box with another list on the far right. Click on the two samples, they are beautiful:

"Un païs que vol viure" (I want to talk to you of a country that wants to live, I want to talk to you of a country that dies ...)

"Perqué m'an pas dit" (... but why, why, they have not told me at school the name of my country ...)

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Easy.. first Reconquista ... then, Edicto de Expulsión.

Yes, great idea, we'll do this in Catalogne.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Claudi Martí, cantautor (folk singer) occitan.. with some Occitans. They could easily belong here...

Just like some Catalans could easily belong here.

About Marti :

Claude Marti reçoit le soutien de :Région Languedoc Roussillon SeptimanieRégion Midi PyrénéesConseil général de l'HéraultConseil général de l'AudeAdamiMinistère de la culture

What a great Nationalist supported by the French state.

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by M.Duchemin

Ho, ho, I can remember this song, it really sucked!

I second that... they were the typical "party" group which only resists one summer.

Silicon... which one?

Don't you see her? The Cuban is the one on the right, but I don't discard the other could have silicone lips too... in our times nobody knows. (:o

[Yago]

Originally Posted by Der Elsasser

Yes, great idea, we'll do this in Catalogne.

LOL.. remember the siege of Girona? Remember what happened the last time you tried (posing as friendly allies)?

Talking is cheap.

Just like some Catalans could easily belong here.

I meant Valencia, not Catalunya. And anyway, here where.. Occitania? But of course!

About Marti :

What a great Nationalist supported by the French state.

A good means to get back something of what they are robbed by the French.

You know, you are an Alsatian and go by the German name of der Elsasser, which is right. And yet you want to deny others the right to their true identity? What does that make of you?

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Talking is cheap.

Try to take (or "liberate") Occitania, and we'll see, huh ?

You know, you are an Alsatian and go by the German name of der Elsasser, which is right. And yet you want to deny others the right to their true identity? What does that make of you?

An evil imperialist I guess.
Seriously, where did I deny others the right to their "true" identity ? I've repeated - at least 100 times - my point about Occitania. I've nothing against local cultures, as long as there aren't separatist claims (like in Alsace for instance).
I'm just saying this is rather "funny" to claim to fight France, or the French state, when you are precisely financed by the French state and the French.

[Carnyx]

No offense Mynydd, I respect "Occitan" culture, but what I can't bear with this kind of singer (he's probably some leftist dealings) is the fact that they use their "heimat" culture as a mean to oppose to France. It's very unpleasant for us. Be proud of his regional roots and patois is a thing, cultivate his differences is an other thing. Why always put in opposition the french occitan culture with the northern French culture if not to try to destroy France? (you're not aimed. I speak of "occitanists")

I lived in "Occitania", I used to watch regional programs on french public tv. Especially one of them, I loved the music they played, so I watchd it. I can't remember the name. Anyway, there were many pseudo "nationalist" claiming occitans. To be true, they were leftists, the kind of guys who welcomed blacks because they spoke occitan and reject other non occitan french... So, we've to be carefull with occitan claimings. It does smell freemasons. I'm not a "Jackobin" and want all these cultures to be preserved as much as possible. One more thing, it would be more exact to speak of cultures of "occitanie" than of occitan culture (sure there are troubadoures, Mistral, etc...). It exists affinities between all these frenchmen.

[Yago]

Local culture? Uh? Provincial things, hey?


Coma totis los mainatges
Som anat a l'escòla
Coma totis los mainatges
M'an après a legir
M'an cantat plan de cançons
M'aprenguèron tant d'istorias :
Lutèce... Paris... Paris...

Mas perqué, perqué
M'an pas dit à l'escóla
Lo nom de mon païs ?

...

Benlèu tantas coneissenças
Nos mascan la vertat
Aprendrem sols qu'en la terra
Regna pas la libertat
Sauprem la talent de l'lndia
E lo dòl dels Africans
E la mòrt de Guevarra.

Mas perqué, perqué
M'an pas dit a l'escòla
La lenga de nòstre païs ?


And you find it funny that after so many centuries of opression they can sing in the language of their forefathers, their language, with the money that's being levied from them by l'Ille de France?

[Ferran]

More Spaniards...

I will start with our NBA ambassadors ():
Pau Gasol (Catalan)


Raúl López (Catalan)



Nacho Duato (Valencian)


Sete Gibernau (Catalan)


Carlos Checa (Catalan)
along with some Italian fans


Jesús Vázquez (Galician)


Javier Gurruchaga (Basque)


Eva Sanz


Patricia Conde (Castilian)


Sonia Ferrer (Catalan)


Cristina Tàrrega (Valencian)


María Sanjuán (Madrid)


Lucía Castro (Galician)


Montserrat Caballé (Catalan)


Carla Hidalgo (Madrid)


Emma García (Basque)


Vanessa Lorenzo


Arancha de Benito (Madrid)

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Local culture? Uh? Provincial things, hey?

And you find it funny that after so many centuries of opression they can sing in the language of their forefathers, their language, with the money that's being levied from them by l'Ille de France?

As fars as I'm concerned I'm not one of these trendry whiggers loving black-rap and constantly despreciate "has-been" european "folklores" (don't like this word). There are french nationalists from "occitania" who love their country (France). Those ones vote FN and I respect them. One the other had, Occitans who spite on France can be seen in socialist and extrem left meetings.

Oppression? Do we have to hate Romans because they enslaved thousands of our ancestors and genocided gallic tribes? Souvenir ok, masochism no thanks.
Occitans have to blame the Republic and "Jacko"binism not France. They're confusing two distinct things.

We've great deals with moors nowadays and I don't think internal quarrels are a good way to fix troubles here. Those in France who oppose Occitans to French, Bretons to French, etc... are the same who promote multicultaralism and race mixing. It's called "divide and conquer".

[Yago]

Duchemin, from the moment that you say a "French Occitan culture" you are denying their identity. Fine, they are a part of the French state but.. can't you see that they are Occitans, without a need for adjectivation?

You don't have to tell me, I know very well that those folk singers are leftists. But so many are leftists because it was the left that opened to the the only gates to cry out the name of their country. I had recently a discussion with some 3 occitanists (or was it 4, Kohler?), and only one I was openly a leftist.. more of a leftist than a nationalist.

And yes, it is more exact to speak of Occitan cultures, in plural, since there are obvious differences, as it should be expected. But how are they going to develope them distinctively from each other, if they can't develope them in any way? With Occitania the problem is not preservation, but sadly it is regeneration.

I too know the Occitania. My family have an appartment in "era Val d'Aran", that Occitan valley which depends of the Government of Spain and the Generalitat of Catalunya. Which has its own local sub-autonomous government (Conselh Generau) with in the autonomous government of Catalunya. The only place where an Occitan language, the Aranese dialect of Gascon, is official and spoken by the population. I go there when I have the time to spend a few days, and always make journeys through era Val de Lushon, Carcassona, Bezièrs, Peyregord, Fois, Bigorra, ... Albi.

[Yago]

Originally Posted by M.Duchemin

Occitans have to blame the Republic and "Jacko"binism not France.

You are right there but..

They're confusing two distinct things.

... you are wrong here.

[Theobald]

so many centuries of opression

Interesting data (the 10 departments where the FN got its highest scores in 2002) :

Vaucluse 29,64% (Occitania)
Var 28,69% (Occitania)
Alpes-Maritimes 28,68% (Occitania)
Haut-Rhin 28,5%
Bouches-du-Rhône 27,46% (Occitania)
Gard 26,66% (Occitania)
Pyrénées-Orientales 25,13% (Occitania)
Oise 25,08%
Aisne 24,57%
Hérault 24,47% (Occitania)

Looks like the Occitanians don't seem to mind the "Frankish invaders" and don't feel "opressed".

And you find it funny that after so many centuries of opression they can sing in the language of their forefathers, their language, with the money that's being levied from them by l'Ille de France?

If this is only cultural, I don't have any problem with this. But I'm not going to support any separatist claim in my Nation (or my State, if you prefer), no Nationalist would ever support that. I don't think you would accept to financially support the Basque separatists or ERC.

[Carnyx]

Duchemin, from the moment that you say a "French Occitan culture" you are denying their identity. Fine, they are a part of the French state but.. can't you see that they are Occitans, without a need for adjectivation?

Do I have to admit that "Occitanism" is not one of the component of France and a part of french culture or maybe that there's no such thing as a french culture?
If not a french culture, it's not a spanish culture either and Catalan is not spanish either and etc...
I don't think I deny a specific culture of a specific "pais" of France (to use an occitan word).

Originally Posted by Mynydd

You don't have to tell me,

I supposed you were aware of all this things.

And yes, it is more exact to speak of Occitan cultures, in plural, since there are obvious differences, as it should be expected. But how are they going to develope them distinctively from each other, if they can't develope them in any way? With Occitania the problem is not preservation, but sadly it is regeneration.

I'm not responsible for the destruction of their culture. Unfortunately, being a "internal apatrid" french, I don't have the chance to have a regional/local (whatever you call it) culture of my own but a "France-french" culture. And this culture is too concerned with preservation.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

... you are wrong here.

Before French Revolution, local cultures where very "alive" in the time of the monarchy (languages, traditions, myths, system of measurement, etc...). Of course the official language was the "François" since the ordonance of Villers-Cotteret (16th century) but it didn't affect the use patois (just for offical acts). Untill WWI, regional languages (with patois and dialects) were commonly used by a great majority of french, some were fluent in both French and patois/dialect and some even can't spoke french (strangely all my ancestors spoke french). Because of population moves and contacts, local languages were replaced by french. Concerning "Occitania", in the time of F.Mistral, "occitan culture" was aready in trouble.

Local culture? Uh? Provincial things, hey

Province has a pejorative connotation because of Parisian's snobism. Being myself a "Provincial", I've no problem with "Province". On the other hand, be sure that I sincerely despise "Parisianism".

[Yago]

I hoped that this would stop at the point in which we would agree to disagree. But since you two insist, you will have to do much better than this from now on..

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Occitans have to blame the Republic and "Jacko"binism not France. They're confusing two distinct things.

France and Jacobinism are one and the same. There is no France without Jacobinism. There has never been.. well yes, but then it was called l'Ille de France and its territories were further north of the Garona line.

Look at the history of the European Union and see what we have. A French-led creation, at the image of the French centralist and anti-preservationist state. Y suma y sigue.

There are french nationalists from "occitania" who love their country (France). Those ones vote FN and I respect them. One the other had, Occitans who spite on France can be seen in socialist and extrem left meetings.

Since 1213 under a state which anihilated their culture, it is hardly surprising. Which other choices are they left, what have they learned at school? As the song goes..

"... They taught me to read
They sung me many songs
They taught me so many stories
Lutetia... Paris... Paris... ("French" accent here)

But why, why
They haven't told me at school
The name of my country

...

But why, why
They haven't told me at school
The language of our country"


What do you expect? It is actually a miracle that there are Occitans who know their identity, in spite of France.

Originally Posted by Der Elsasser

Interesting data (the 10 departments where the FN got its highest scores in 2002) :

Looks like the Occitanians don't seem to mind the "Frankish invaders" and don't feel "opressed".

See above. It is the result of 800 years of forced "frenchisisation".

If this is only cultural, I don't have any problem with this.

It depends of what you understand by cultural. Just a provincial folklore, like for tourists to buy stickers of la creu d'Occitania and a few brochures of Montségur?

my Nation (or my State, if you prefer)

I'm not about preferences here, but about calling things by their right name.

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Do I have to admit that "Occitanism" is not one of the component of France h culture or maybe that there's no such thing as a french culture?

There is a French culture, yes. But Occitan culture has its own identity. Occitan culture does not take from French culture. French culture takes from Occitan and other cultures.

If not a french culture, it's not a spanish culture either and Catalan is not spanish either and etc...

There is not "one" Spanish culture, just as there is not one "core" Spain. There has been, though, the infiltration and imposition of French Jacobinism in Spain, which is what makes you view Spain with a confused mind and eyes, with the mind and the eyes of France.

True Spanish nationalists do not just aim to free Spain as a whole from the chaos that threatens our survival, but also to restore the true Hispanic ways, the old Spanish ways. Furs i Llibertat! ¡Fueros y Libertad!

I'm not responsible for the destruction of their culture.

I haven't blamed you.

And french culture is too concerned with preservation.

"I'm not responsible for the destruction of their culture."

Province has a pejorative connotation because of Parisian's snobism. Being myself a "Provincial", I've no problem with "Province".

Good, because I too am a "provincianne", and even a "provincianist". Now we have found something in common.

On the other hand, be sure that I sincerely despise "Parisianism".

I have no doubt that you are sincere in your despise of "Parisianism". And so are many other "French" that I've known. I would say most, except for Parisian themselves.

However, what does France have to offer as an alternative to "parisianism"?

I know what Spain has to offer: The Spains, what she was since the origins and was taken away from her, from us.

[Ferran]

More:

Iñaki Urdangarin (Basque), the most awarded handball player.



Spanish top golf players ():
Sergio García (Valencian)


Miguel Angel Jiménez (Andalusian)



Josep Piqué (Catalan)


Jaime Cantizano (Andalusian)


Esther Arroyo (Andalusian)


Noemí Caldas (Galician)


Gemma Cuervas (Catalan)


Beatriz Segura (Catalan)


Eva Santolaria (Catalan)


Arancha Bonete (Valencian)


Elena Jiménez


Anabel Conde (Andalusian)


Mireia Martí (Catalan)


Elena Ballesteros (Madrid)


Helen Lindes (Canarian)


Ariadna Artiles (Canarian)