Spain and Germany Against an English-Speaking Only Europe

[Menydh]

Neither in Spain nor in Germany do we want an Europe which speaks only English
The Direction of Goethe Institut speaks out on the linguistic policies in both countries.

La Razón, January 18, 2005

Germans have selected "the nicest word" in their language, in a contest boosted by Goethe Institut which aims to (re)discover the German language in an entertaining fashion. The winning word was "habseligkeiten" (belongings). Goethe Institut highest representatives have visited Madrid to sign an agreement with their Spanish counterpart, Instituto Cervantes, and hold talks on the chalenges of the German language and its relation with the Spanish language, of their own "Spanglish" ("Denglish"), and... the ugliest words.

Madrid.- With five floors and 1,600 squared meters, the see that will be shared in Stockholm by the Goethe Institut and Instituto Cervantes will open in two months time. Although there is yet not plan over the table, both members joke about the good relationship among them which has created "a matrimony". In Avenida de América, Andreas Schlüter, General Secretary of Goethe Institut says that he wants his coffee "también con leche" (also with milk). Next to him, Wolfgang Bader (Attachee General Director) is also present in this interview.

-The numbers of students of Spanish language in France has increased whereas those of German have decreased. Isn't it a problem that two institutions in charge of promoting the two languages will share offices?
-Bader: It can be seen in two ways: on the one hand we are competing. People who learn Spanish don't learn German. But there is also a common ground, which is the multilinguistic vision of Europe. Germans and Spaniards are "partners", supporters of the same policy because we want an Europe with two obligatory languages. We don't want an Europe which speaks only English.

-There is a new phenomenon in Germany, "Denglish", similar to our "Spanglish". How does this affect your language?
-Bader: It is the same phenomenon in all languages. The media is plagued with anglicisms. It is an issue which is much debated: in Spain it is thought to damage the language, but we don't share this view. We believe that it is a task of all languages to digest outside influences: there is no single language which originates of only one source. And this is a phenomenon which adds creativity: for example, in Germany the moblie phone is called with an English word, "handy", which is a German creation.

-And yet, not that long ago a hamburguer manufacturing company was forced to change its publicity in Germany because it was in English...
-Bader: The reason behind it is that the publicity strategists have realized that it didn't work well and then they have returned to using German. Not because anglicisms are considered a threat, but because excess of English usage excludes to some layers of the population.

-Does the enlargement of the EU favour the weight of German language in Europe?
-Schlüter: Of course. Before the fall of the former USSR, the first language learned in Eastern Europe was Russian or German. There are many people who have gone through the scholar system learning German and who want to continue learning it. And we must not forget that Germany is the most important partner of many of these countries, like Poland and the Czech and Slovakian Republics.

-What's the incentive for someone who decides to study German? German Literarture? Philosophy?
-Schlüter: In addition to the economical and commercial reasons, German continues being the predominant language in many academic disciplines, like Music, Philosophy, Theology, Law Sciences, ...
-Bader: Other people want to travel. Or, more recently, come to Germany to watch the Football World Championship (laughs).

-About the presence of German language in Spain, you would say...
-Bader: ... Spain is a very peculiar country, but not in a positive sense. Only 0.7% of students in Spain learn German. But the need that the Spanish society has of learning German is huge: think about the existing German tourism.

-Must the State play an interventionist role in the expansion of the German language? Does this affect Goethe Institut?
-Bader: We have a system in which the Government coordinates, finances and defends some basic political lines to follow, and the practical work is carried out by Goethe Institut. And that division of the work works pretty well.

[Arawn]

Germany could set an example and stop dubbing movies to German.
Countries like the Netherlands get a reputation for being good at language, not so much because of some sort of magic ability (far from it, Dutchies may speak several languages badly, but it is still several languages), but because they virtualy never dub anything, thus offering TV viewers there greater exposure to different languages.

[Milesian]

One of the issues is that people in Europe tend to learn other languages and speak them, if not fluently, then are at least able to communicate in them to a reasonable degree. Whereas in the UK most people don't. The only compulsory language is French and even then it is only compulsory for the first three years of Secondary School (11-14 year old). Then most people tend to drop it as a subject as soon as they can. Thus most people in the UK are monolingual, and as most places speak English, most films and media are in English, etc then they don't have much incentive to change.

Observe your average British tourist on holiday in Europe, who think they can speak Spanish or German by SHOU-TING-ENG-LISH-SLO-WLY at the natives and you get an idea of the extent of the problem.

I've heard in France that some people simply refuse to speak in English (even if they can), and this is probably a reasonable attitude. If vistors are not interested in learning their language, then why should they learn someone elses?

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Milesian

One of the issues is that people in Europe tend to learn other languages and speak them, if not fluently, then are at least able to communicate in them to a reasonable degree. Whereas in the UK most people don't. The only compulsory language is French and even then it is only compulsory for the first three years of Secondary School (11-14 year old). Then most people tend to drop it as a subject as soon as they can. Thus most people in the UK are monolingual, and as most places speak English, most films and media are in English, etc then they don't have much incentive to change.

Observe your average British tourist on holiday in Europe, who think they can speak Spanish or German by SHOU-TING-ENG-LISH-SLO-WLY at the natives and you get an idea of the extent of the problem.

I've heard in France that some people simply refuse to speak in English (even if they can), and this is probably a reasonable attitude. If vistors are not interested in learning their language, then why should they learn someone elses?

Well thats true...

I have a German language set with tapes, books, dictionary etc in my cupboard, but I have no incentive to get it out and learn it atm.

Whenever I go on Holiday everyone speaks great English, most of the time better than mine .

Heh....my dads a textbook idiot doing that speaking slowly mallarky.....W-H-ERE IIIIIIS T-HHHHEE lol, quite a good traveller though so he rarely asks for help anyway .

[Arjuna Durden]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

-About the presence of German language in Spain, you would say...
-Bader: ... Spain is a very peculiar country, but not in a positive sense. Only 0.7% of students in Spain learn German. But the need that the Spanish society has of learning German is huge: think about the existing German tourism.

I agree with the general philosophy of the interview (a not-only English-speaking Europe)

BUT real reasons for Spaniards to learn German might be:
liking / loving Germany or Germans or German culture
using German for work
just because they want to

and NOT because there are lots of German tourists in Spain
that would be rather a reason for Germans to learn Spanish (and maybe other Spanish languages)

If applied the same logic to Germany itself, Germans should learn Turkish, Vietnamese and English, because of the many emigrants and American tourists in Germany

[Arawn]

What Europe should do is promote its own movies more within each other countries, and NOT dub them, this will give more exposure to languages and create more intrest as well as providing easily acessable practice to people who want to use their skills in those languages.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

Well thats true...

I have a German language set with tapes, books, dictionary etc in my cupboard, but I have no incentive to get it out and learn it atm.

Whenever I go on Holiday everyone speaks great English, most of the time better than mine .

Heh....my dads a textbook idiot doing that speaking slowly mallarky.....W-H-ERE IIIIIIS T-HHHHEE lol, quite a good traveller though so he rarely asks for help anyway .

Even better is when they go around Spain saying - "Bonjour.Can we have two fried breakfasts, luv?Merci!"

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Arjuna Durden

BUT real reasons for Spaniards to learn German might be:
liking / loving Germany or Germans or German culture
using German for work
just because they want to

I like the last reason over others.

and NOT because there are lots of German tourists in Spain
that would be rather a reason for Germans to learn Spanish (and maybe other Spanish languages)

From your profile I see that you are a Galician. Then in your area you don't have nearly as many foreign tourists as we do have over here (I envy the quality of tourism in Northern Spain... Spanish tourism ).

If you lived here (Eastern Mediterranean Coast) you would notice two different patterns of behaviour among tourists:

- Germans do try to learn the language and to communicate, and many do speak at least some Spanish.
- Brits are too lazy to try, and even when they do they are not very successful to put it politely.

Originally Posted by Arawn

Germany could set an example and stop dubbing movies to German.

...

What Europe should do is promote its own movies more within each other countries, and NOT dub them

When I watch a film for entertainment, the last thing I want to hear is the actors speaking weird. I watch the film to have some pleasant viewing, not a hard time.

How would you like it if I demanded that all films should be made in all languages except for English, and never dubbed into English? I'm not sure if you don't realize of how typically British and impertinent that kind of suggestions are, or if you do it on purpose to annoy others.

[Arjuna Durden]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I like the last reason over others.

From your profile I see that you are a Galician. Then in your area you don't have nearly as many foreign tourists as we do have over here (I envy the quality of tourism in Northern Spain... Spanish tourism ).

If you lived here (Eastern Mediterranean Coast) you would notice two different patterns of behaviour among tourists:

- Germans do try to learn the language and to communicate, and many do speak at least some Spanish.
- Brits are too lazy to try, and even when they do they are not very successful to put it politely.

I may be a Galician, but I do travel (in fact, I'm the flying Galician)

Yes, Brits don't even try to ... think, I know
Germans at least do try to learn some sentences in Spanish (well, not all Germans)

But this does not mean Spaniards should learn German because of German tourism. Think about this logic. Should average Parisians learn English because of thousands of Americans streaming into Paris every Spring and Summer? A different thing is if one works in the tourism industry, but Spaniards in general should do nothing with German tourists but being friendly. If many Germans keep visiting Spain year after year, it is them who should try and learn some Spanish, don't you think? I don't know any German who learnt Japanese because thousands of Japanese visiting Berlin, Heidelberg and Munich every year.

[Milesian]

To be honest, there is nothing I detest more than going to a foriegn country and being subjected to the same food, drink, music and language as I do back home.

That's why I go on holiday in the first place, for a change of lifestyle.
Otherwise, why not just stay at home? (ok, miserable climate excepted )

[Gil]

Dubbing ruins my movie experience, and I also think that young kids exposed to movies and general TV with subtitles learn tidbits of different languages better. I'm all pro-subbing.
~
Cheers

[Awar]

I hate dubbing. I learned my English from movies, and what I know of other languages also from movies and TV shows.

I think exposure to other languages is beneficial for one's intellect.

But, then, there's such a thing as over-exposure.
Youths are attracted to using and abusing foreign words.

On the other hand, there's another extreme, portrayed in
Croatia, where everything in the media is translated into Croatian newspeak.
A language that exists only on their TV and newspapers, and most
Croats find it ridiculous.

It probably wouldn't be so ridiculous if the creators of the newspeak
actually spent some time on it, but they were in a hurry to create it
in the early 90's, so an army of awkward sounding words made their way to the media.

[Faísca]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

When I watch a film for entertainment, the last thing I want to hear is the actors speaking weird. I watch the film to have some pleasant viewing, not a hard time.

How would you like it if I demanded that all films should be made in all languages except for English, and never dubbed into English? I'm not sure if you don't realize of how typically British and impertinent that kind of suggestions are, or if you do it on purpose to annoy others.

To be honest, the first thing I do when I notice a film is dubbed is:
a) Turn it back right away.
b) Stop it immediately.
c) Burn it.

I really do believe a subtitled film is better, people can learn a lot from it regarding foreign languages. I don't like to watch a film when the voices don't match the character, the sound is not synchronized with the movements and the like. It annoys me to death.

However I think films should be dubbed to kids under seven years old. I mean, the films directed to them.

[Awar]

I think kids under 4-5 shouldn't be exposed to foreign movies, until they
get a good knowledge of their own language.

Besides, the Masonic conspiracy that is the TELETUBBIES is just used to kill
kids' braincells

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Johannes de León

I really do believe a subtitled film is better, people can learn a lot from it regarding foreign languages. I don't like to watch a film when the voices don't match the character, the sound is not synchronized with the movements and the like. It annoys me to death.

That's because in Portugal you don't have a proper dubbing industry since you are used to watching films with subtitles.

In Spain the dubbing industry is highly professional and excellent. I believe that in Germany it is too. You must look hard at it to catch a desynchronisation.