Canabis legalisation is a crime against the Europe

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

I know some people that took marijuana all throughout high school. I can name 5 off the top of my head. I can tell you that all 5 CLAIM THEMSELVES that they experience memory loss. Some say that their high school years are a blur even which is terribly depressing.
You might believe that it's not up to the government to pick people's diets and make their health decisions, the problem is that this health decisions the government makes are not for selfish individuals who use the "it's my body so I do what I want argument" but the government is doing those decisions because the people who do cannabis can cause harm to society.

I can think of 20+ people who use marijuana...it does cause short term memory loss in cases, I'm not denying that

I also believe that these people are often selfish. I don't have a problem with occasional use, everything is selfish to some extent (going out for a nice meal could be called selfish), however, it's not the government's role to make decisions for people, this infringes on a rational person's ability to freely chose what is Right. f.e. if you are forced to give to charity, it's not really charity.

however, it is their body. the Government doesn't own it, no matter how selfish the person is.

While to some extent it might harm society (it's hard to prove this, and most things hurt society...but few here are chiming in to outlaw obesity and enact government run diets), it isn't a direct harm, like rape or murder. I also stressed that laws which required private usage would be fine.

[Strengthandhonour]

Sometimes people don't know what is the best for them or for society overall. I am not one to give the government absolute power over my life, but I believe that every once in a while they are right. This is an issue that I believe they are correct about. It's a very delicate issue.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

Sometimes people don't know what is the best for them or for society overall.

this is essentially the same argument that Muslims in favor of Sharia rule, that people don't know what's best for them or that government has to enforce morality.

I think it's much better to just live a moral and good life, and encourage others to do so. it's better to lead by example

[Strengthandhonour]

It's a beautiful idea when you put it down on paper..but let's be honest..
lets say tomorrow all governments dissapear and the whole world erupts into anarchy..how many people do you think would do the "right" thing to do?

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

It's a beautiful idea when you put it down on paper..but let's be honest..
lets say tomorrow all governments dissapear and the whole world erupts into anarchy..how many people do you think would do the "right" thing to do?

I'm not advocating anarchy. Government has a very important role: to protect individual rights and prevent them from being infringed upon by others. anarchy is a bad idea.

[Strengthandhonour]

I know you are not supporting anarchy. My point is that if people had the power and freedom to do the "wrong" thing, they would do it. The only thing that holds people back from doing it is the punishment that will be given to them by the government.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

I know you are not supporting anarchy. My point is that if people had the power and freedom to do the "wrong" thing, they would do it. The only thing that holds people back from doing it is the punishment that will be given to them by the government.

no, that's not really true...I have the ability to do wrong as it is, and get away with it, but I choose not to because it is wrong and speaking of deterrents, murderers for instance aren't deterred in the slightest from the death penalty, which some would say is the ultimate punishment.

[Strengthandhonour]

Yes. Of course.
We can all get away with a lot of things. When some people reach the breaking point though, it dosn't matter to them. Like with drugs. How many girls and boys throw away their lives and end up living in some ghetto screwing some cokehead just to get their fix? don't say it isn't true because I work in the medical field and know plenty of doctors in Europe and the US who share their stories of kids that come in to be "rescued".
Death isn't the ultimate punishment in my opinion. A life of solitude and regret can be though. Such as that one that Zacariahs Mozawi(sp) has as he rots away in a cell the size of my storing room at my house. If you think that people are going to do the "right" thing all the time..I see you are 18, soon you should be applying to college I imagine if you didn't already. Once you get there make sure to take some psychology classes. Criminology and sociology as well perhaps. There you will learn about how people make the right decision so often.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

Yes. Of course.
We can all get away with a lot of things. When some people reach the breaking point though, it dosn't matter to them. Like with drugs. How many girls and boys throw away their lives and end up living in some ghetto screwing some cokehead just to get their fix? don't say it isn't true because I work in the medical field and know plenty of doctors in Europe and the US who share their stories of kids that come in to be "rescued".
Death isn't the ultimate punishment in my opinion. A life of solitude and regret can be though. Such as that one that Zacariahs Mozawi(sp) has as he rots away in a cell the size of my storing room at my house. If you think that people are going to do the "right" thing all the time..I see you are 18, soon you should be applying to college I imagine if you didn't already. Once you get there make sure to take some psychology classes. Criminology and sociology as well perhaps. There you will learn about how people make the right decision so often.

I'm already enrolled in college, and I'm a philosophy major


you act as if we disagree on this. I hate drug addiction, it's a horrible thing, but it's a private matter for charities, churches and communities to solve, not the government's.

[Strengthandhonour]

I can understand this.
But churches won't be able to fix them. I can understand your view on it since you are a catholic. The church is already in enough trouble and is trying to clean it's image in many places. "watering" itself down so it can become more accepted. Communities need to have links to the government, otherwise, we just live in a feudalist world. Communities need support from the government to educate the kids about drug abuse and the consequences of it.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

I can understand this.
But churches won't be able to fix them. I can understand your view on it since you are a catholic. The church is already in enough trouble and is trying to clean it's image in many places. "watering" itself down so it can become more accepted. Communities need to have links to the government, otherwise, we just live in a feudalist world. Communities need support from the government to educate the kids about drug abuse and the consequences of it.

well...that's pretty unsubstantiated and hard to prove. Churches are the #1 source of charity in the world...

the Church doesn't water its self down by helping out the lowly...hell, they invented the hospital, used for sick and poor people.

Feudalist? I dunno about that, but I certainly trust my community, which actually cares about me over a government which just wants to get reelected...

[Strengthandhonour]

The attachment to the community is stronger since they are closer to you. Church helps but the drug problem is to big for the church to handle along. There needs to a bigger collaboration.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

The attachment to the community is stronger since they are closer to you. Church helps but the drug problem is to big for the church to handle along. There needs to a bigger collaboration.

we can only deal with theoreticals, but I would wager that if there was less government intervention that doesn't work, churches would step in...

otherwise, let people do what they want as long as they aren't getting behind the wheel of a car etc

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

not sure, but an idiotic smile (that's subjective) is not something to assume brain damagr from

It is a sign of idiocy, also known as mental retardation.

how is it abused?

Using it as an argument everytime the issue arises, while hiding the fact that there have been other cases where prohibition (together with proper Justice action) has not had any incidence on crime.

Therefore dodging the issue that it must have been Government inefficacy, lack of will or other reasons that allowed an increase in crime.

Driving a stolen car is prohibited. Would you say that if you lifted the prohibition, car stealing would decrease?

the crime is plenty cracked down upon. people can be searched (unlawfully) without warrant where I live pretty easily, and yet I can get it (I don't use) incredibly easily. the only way to possibly eliminate the crime is to enforce draconian measures which are a huge curtailment of civil liberties and individual responsibility.

Do you know what I do with your nonesense of civil liberties, don't you?

I care for real freedom, not for hypocritical liberties. I care for the freedom of a young woman to walk on her own at any time at night, and not being brutally raped and killed by a gang of scum.

I don't care if the police breaks the civil liberties of any of the elements of that gang.

I care for my mother's freedom to be at home with the windows and door opened. Why should I care for the civil liberties of the bastart who might break in and do her any harm?

Screw America and all its masonic ideas of liberties. It is Freedom that we demand.

[Marcus Marulus]

In the wonderful modern Western society we have great many completely unnecessary "liberties" and there is even a public outcry for more such "liberties" (like the legalization of cannabis), but we are deprived of genuine freedom that could enable us to live like normal human beings.