Canabis legalisation is a crime against the Europe

[Marka Ragnos]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

That's simply disgusting.
Yes, some people easily fall prey to temptation, but the sane choice is to help such a person. That's one of the differences between a pack of vultures and a civilized society.

I believe that droggists are naturally weak persons who cannot be helped.

[kestutisturbo]

Originally Posted by Marka Ragnos

I believe that droggists are naturally weak persons who cannot be helped.

It depends. There are some examples of famous musicians who spent the great amount of money and time at hospitals etc

[Northern Invasion]

Cannabis should be legalized...along with most drugs. it isn't government's role to make health decisions for you, and prohibition doesn't work, ends up causing more crime, jails become crowded with people who committed victimless crimes.

besides that, on a practical note, cannabis has very few health issues associated with it. much safer than alcohol or tobacco, and I have no problem with those being legal.

[Sergius]

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

it isn't government's role to make health decisions for you

That's your claim. Is it not the role of the state to protect the weak? In a social state, it certainly is. Also, it is not hard to imagine what else will ensue when such an argument is used - next it will be cocaine that you will want legalized, using the very same reasoning.

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

and prohibition doesn't work

What makes you say that?

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

victimless crimes.

Addicts are the first victims of their own condition.

edit: I see now that you are a Libertarian. I assume your ideal society can be compared to that of single-cell organisms, then - no reason for me to waste my time on such a sick ideology.

[OneEnglishNorman]

Prohibition creates black markets for those banned items.

And the quality of the goods is not subject to open to public appraisal. So the good in question could be of inconsistent quality or even dangerous.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

Cannabis should be legalized...along with most drugs. it isn't government's role to make health decisions for you, and prohibition doesn't work, ends up causing more crime, jails become crowded with people who committed victimless crimes.

Strange. They were very^* illegal here in the 70s, and those crime problems that you mention did not exist.

(*) "very" as in today it is illegal but no, I mean, no that big deal

besides that, on a practical note, cannabis has very few health issues associated with it.

I could name a few with virtually no brain cells left after a life time consuming cannabis.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

What makes you say that?

ever heard of prohibition in the United States? some people decided to make everyone else abide by their morals; crime rings erupted, alcohol was still available, and there was no moral victory. soon, alcohol prohibition was overturned, but not before many innocent people were caught in the crossfire of alcohol raids.

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Addicts are the first victims of their own condition.

sure, but it's their decision. should we have the government put us on diets, because certain foods are bad for you, or would you rather be able to make right decisions for yourself?

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

edit: I see now that you are a Libertarian. I assume your ideal society can be compared to that of single-cell organisms, then - no reason for me to waste my time on such a sick ideology.

nothing sick about Natural Rights....the ideal society is one where everyone makes the right decisions and lives perfectly morally, but has the freedom to do so, not to be coerced.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Strange. They were very^* illegal here in the 70s, and those crime problems that you mention did not exist.

(*) "very" as in today it is illegal but no, I mean, no that big deal

not sure I understand what you're saying here..

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I could name a few with virtually no brain cells left after a life time consuming cannabis.

Cannabis doesn't kill brain cells. Erowid Cannabis Vault : Cannabis FAQ

especially when compared to alcohol, which causes many overdose deaths per year, it is impossible to overdose on Cannabis, making it much safer than the average drug...I mean, hell, people die from overdosing on aspirin.

[OneEnglishNorman]

My gut feeling is cannabis impairs mental health. I do not know if the studies bear this out.

[Sergius]

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

ever heard of prohibition in the United States? some people decided to make everyone else abide by their morals; crime rings erupted, alcohol was still available, and there was no moral victory. soon, alcohol prohibition was overturned, but not before many innocent people were caught in the crossfire of alcohol raids.

Now, do you need any more proof that people's own selfish interests, especially in a sick society such as the USAmerican, need a helping hand?

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

sure, but it's their decision. should we have the government put us on diets, because certain foods are bad for you, or would you rather be able to make right decisions for yourself?

It's a balancing act - unlike certain cults and Libertarians, I believe in something that isn't all or nothing.

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

nothing sick about Natural Rights

Nothing natural about them, either.

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

the ideal society is one where everyone makes the right decisions and lives perfectly morally, but has the freedom to do so, not to be coerced.

Sounds fine. When are people going to start acting that way?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

not sure I understand what you're saying here..

I'm saying that crime derives from the illegalization of drugs, only if you do not crack down properly on it (ie. on crime).

In other words, when a crime against the public health is not met with an adequate law punishment, and the benefits derived from committing the crime (financial) greatly exceed the losses derived from it (legal).

Cannabis doesn't kill brain cells. Erowid Cannabis Vault : Cannabis FAQ

How many long-term patients have they examined?

Ever seen the characteristical idiot's smile of a long-term cannabis consumer?

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

ever heard of prohibition in the United States?

Far too many times. It is one of the most abused arguments in favour of legalization.

But again, it is a problem with not cracking down on crime as it should be done.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Now, do you need any more proof that people's own selfish interests, especially in a sick society such as the USAmerican, need a helping hand?

a helping hand from who? the government? why not churches and private charities? no one said that they shouldn't be helped, but banning people from making their own choices is wrong.

again, how would you feel about a government mandated diet?

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Nothing natural about them, either.

do you understand what Natural Rights are?

Sounds fine. When are people going to start acting that way?[/quote]
yet, you seem to advocate coercive measures to enforce morality, i.e. drug criminalization

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

How many long-term patients have they examined?

Ever seen the characteristical idiot's smile of a long-term cannabis consumer?

not sure, but an idiotic smile (that's subjective) is not something to assume brain damagr from

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Far too many times. It is one of the most abused arguments in favour of legalization.

But again, it is a problem with not cracking down on crime as it should be done.

how is it abused?

the crime is plenty cracked down upon. people can be searched (unlawfully) without warrant where I live pretty easily, and yet I can get it (I don't use) incredibly easily. the only way to possibly eliminate the crime is to enforce draconian measures which are a huge curtailment of civil liberties and individual responsibility.

[Sergius]

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

a helping hand from who? the government? why not churches and private charities? no one said that they shouldn't be helped, but banning people from making their own choices is wrong.

Wrong according to what? Oh yeah, those Natural Rights that some guy came up with. If you can just make up your own universal rights, arguing becomes so much easier.

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

again, how would you feel about a government mandated diet?

I oppose it.

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

do you understand what Natural Rights are?

Yes. I have met quite a few people like you. These rights do not exist, and calling a social construct universal is a logical fallacy.

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

yet, you seem to advocate coercive measures to enforce morality, i.e. drug criminalization

I was being ironic. It doesn't sound fine - it sounds like a dangerously naïve fairy-tale.

[Northern Invasion]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

I oppose it.

why? if it's better for your health, then why not do it?

and it also baffles me how you, as a Christian can deny that natural rights exist

[Sergius]

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion

why? if it's better for your health, then why not do it?

And you will keep asking me why until I come up with a mathematical formula that proves my point of view, right?
What people eat is within the private sphere, and as long as it doesn't break the laws or negatively affect the public sphere, society, it is to be left in the private sphere.

Originally Posted by Northern Invasion