should homosexuality be a crime?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Gil

As long as they don't bother me or my family they can do as they please.
I think limiting (with judicial means) one's sexual choice is a bad precedent; a state who would do that would pretty soon enforce selective mating and ban all forms of "dissident" behaviour and thinking; now, you might say that would be good, more, that would be your ideal nation, but think for a second: what if that dictatorship was communist, or ultra-democratic or whatnot? Not a pretty future, huh?

Don't everyone love to have the fancy liberal saying in the right moment?

What people forget in those moments are things like that displaying their homosexuality in public, they create a confusion in children who are in a phase of mental growth and development, and who usually do what they see grown up people (or what they perceive as grown up people), be them the parents or strangers.

Originally Posted by FlashVoyager

I have always been quite indifferent to them. Don't really care about marriage, if it's a religious marriage then let the church decide, if it's secular marriage then let the state decide.

Marriage is an institution of heterosexual couples, not a sex habit. Why should they imitate heterosexuals, if they are and want to be different?

By the way, the admittance of their right to marriage implies the admittance of their right to have children (which mother nature denies them).. or to adopt them.

[Gil]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Don't everyone love to have the fancy liberal saying in the right moment?

Liberal? Me? Please...

Originally Posted by Mynydd

What people forget in those moments are things like that displaying their homosexuality in public, they create a confusion in children who are in a phase of mental growth and development, and who usually do what they see grown up people (or what they perceive as grown up people), be them the parents or strangers.

That's what parents are for; if one isn't capable of educating their children and explaining the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality then one shouldn't have children in the first place.

I think it's more important to ensure our children are given a proper education, a civilized and balanced society which isn't raped by rampant capitalism and mass immigration than to judge about one's personal sexual choices; no, I don't support homosexuality but the fact remains that making it illegal won't make it disappear; humans are flawed creatures, deviants will always exist and if we are to ban anything and hang them high on the public square, then you have my vote for the rapists, the paedophiles, the molesters, the mass murderers, etc.

[Franze]

It´s necessary having the possibility of treating like a psiquical disease the homosexuality like it happens in nimphomany, but of course it would be an optional treatment, but all the public knowledges and things like marriage must be forbidden. And of course the rubbish called gay pride and all these things.

[Freebooter]

Originally Posted by Gil

I don't support homosexuality but the fact remains that making it illegal won't make it disappear...

While I certainly agree, I'm not sure the point of outlawing homosexuality is to remove it entirely.

From my perspective, outlawing homosexuality conveys a clear message and that is that homosexuality is not acceptable in the public domain. Making it inhospitable for homosexuals ensures that their demented antics remain out of the public eye and, in my opinion, would do a great deal to diminish it as a public issue.

I am of the mind that even a position of indifference, when it comes to homosexuality, is a position of tolerance of homosexuality. I think if we take such an apathetic approach to homosexuals, then there will always be room for such things as 'gay pride' parades, homosexual communities, and things of that nature.

[Gil]

I don't disagree entirely; I just think that more pressing issues, issues we can really change ourselves, demand attention.

I'm more concerned about the invasion of chinese in my little rural town than about gay guys in the main cities. I'm not detached from reality, i'm simply stating that our current government and any other that comes after won't take such measures so we have to fight what we can with the means we can.

[Freebooter]

Originally Posted by Gil

I don't disagree entirely; I just think that more pressing issues...

I think that much is certainly true, and I think that's something everyone on the forum can agree with.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Gil

That's what parents are for; if one isn't capable of educating their children and explaining the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality then one shouldn't have children in the first place.

I see. Well, tell that to the parents who have struggled to educate their children the best they have been able to, but the children have gone astray because of what they were used to see in the streets.

When you have a child, if he ever tries with his best mate because it is something that he has seen two homosexuals doing it, remember that it is you as a parent who should have told him. Even when he did not tell you (like most things they do with friends, "naturally", they don't tell the parents).

making it illegal won't make it disappear

Not giving it the status of normalcy does not equal to making it illegal. Whatever they do in their homes, it is none of my business if they do it to themselves.

[Gil]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Not giving it the status of normalcy does not equal to making it illegal. Whatever they do in their homes, it is none of my business if they do it to themselves.

Well, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
The topic however is "should homosexuality be a crime?" to which I replied that there should no civil punishment for homosexuality. Whatever two consenting adults do in private is none of my business; more, I think the general permissive attitude is worse than actually seeing public displays of homosexuality. The whole "try everything at least once" mentality which many are fond of in our days is responsible for more bad than good.

[Chauntecleer]

Seriously, who cares about what people do in their bedrooms?

According to some estimations one in every ten people are homosexual. If that figure is true then there are probably some closet homosexuals on Stirpes too--just ask yourself who the insecure ones are. It's sad when people have to belittle and oppress people of different sexualities because they get some peverse sense of machoness from it. Reminds me of the jocks back in school who would call people 'fag' and 'queer' and then nakedly hug and do other close male bonding in the showers after rugby training. Pathetic.

The causes of homosexuality are obviously highly complex and not entirely understood. Some theories suggest it's a genetic condition, others that it's more a psychological one. Therefore, if we can't fully begin to comprehend the reason it happens why the Hell should it be made criminal? Certanly outlawing it in the past has had little effect. Even Islamic countries where strict Sharia law makes it an offense punishable by death there are incidences of homosexuality.

Homosexuals should have just as many liberities as heterosexual ones. If that means things like gay pride parades once every year then so be it, I won't be marching with them, but I have no problem with it. They aren't harming anyone, and more often than not have a higher IQ than straight people, especially homophobes.

Last time I checked we were living in the 21st century, not the middle ages. We no longer have to burn witches and homosexuals at the stake to feel better about ourselves.

[Freebooter]

Originally Posted by Chauntecleer

Seriously, who cares about what people do in their bedrooms?

Well obviously we do...

According to some estimations one in every ten people are homosexual. If that figure is true then there are probably some closet homosexuals on Stirpes too--just ask yourself who the insecure ones are.

Why? Have you not read the opinions here? Most of the people who have voiced any level of opposition to homosexuality (and even some of those who haven't) have made it explicit that we do not want to know a person's sexual orientation. So what makes you think we'd be interested in knowing such things about fellow Stirpes members?

It's sad when people have to belittle and oppress people of different sexualities because they get some peverse sense of machoness from it.

I can only speak on behalf of myself, but that is certainly not the reason for my opposition to homosexuality and, more specifically, public homosexuality.

We must not forget what the foundations of Europe are - Christianity. No matter your religion, that is the simple reality. I view this tolerance, and in your case, support for homosexuality as a direct and open attack on these foundations.

My personal interest is the preservation of my own specific culture, followed by the preservation of all of Spain, followed by the preservation of all of Europe. I feel that Christianity plays an integral role in all of the aformenetioned, and I feel that such support, tolerance, or indifference of homosexuality stands as an obstruction to that goal.

Obviously, there are more important problems at hand, as Gil said, but this is certainly a topic worth discussing.

The causes of homosexuality are obviously highly complex and not entirely understood. Some theories suggest it's a genetic condition and others that it's more a psychological condition. If we can't fully begin to comprehend the condition then why the Hell should it be made criminal?

Because, again, it goes entirely against the foundational values of Europe.

Certanly outlawing it in the past has had little effect in the past.

In the past, such a law was unnecessary. Public disapproval was enough to ensure that homosexuals maintained a level of secrecy. Now, that's not the case. Thus, different, 'extreme' measures need to be explored.

Even in Islamic countries where strict Sharia law makes it an offense punishable by death have incidences of homosexuality.

The point is not to eradicate it - as you've suggested, it's a lost cause. The point is to clearly define that such a thing is unacceptable, rather than taking a laissez-faire stance which only sends the message that going against the foundations of Europe, and thus Europe itself, is completely fine.

As I see it, homosexuals should have just as many liberities as heterosexual ones. If that means things like gay pride parades once every year then so be it. They aren't harming anyone.

Sure. Neither is the average Muslim or African. So long as they don't harm anyone, who cares, right?

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Chauntecleer

Seriously, who cares about what people do in their bedrooms?

The problem is not what people do in their bedrooms, but I think that the influence of the gay lobby in society, and its constant attacks against the traditional family, which is the basis of our nations and societies, is a big problem.

Homosexuals should have just as many liberities as heterosexual ones. If that means things like gay pride parades once every year then so be it, I won't be marching with them, but I have no problem with it.

So, you don't mind immigrants as long as they don't live in your neighboorhood ?

Last time I checked we were living in the 21st century, not the middle ages. We no longer have to burn witches and homosexuals at the stake to feel better about ourselves.

...and don't forget that in the 21st century we have to accept the presence of diffent cultures and peoples in our countries, it is would be racist not to accept them.

[Buccaneer]

I don't think it sould be a crime. I think there's nothing wrong about being gay. I've met many, some in the army as well and most of them were okay. I don't see what's the harm in them. Just leaves more chicks for me.

Besides, so-called crimes of morality were removed from the law because they lessened the respect of the law and because the legislators felt that sex life between consenting adults was nobody elses business but theirs. And I very much agree on both counts.

[Chauntecleer]

Originally Posted by Vasconcelos

Well obviously we do...

Why the obsession? What business is it of yours? You shouldn't concern yourself with such things. As Carl Sagan would say, we live on a pale blue dot in the vast emptiness of space and yet there are still narrow-minded people who wish to tell consenting people where they can and can't put their sex organs.

Most of the people who have voiced any level of opposition to homosexuality (and even some of those who haven't) have made it explicit that we do not want to know a person's sexual orientation. So what makes you think we'd be interested in knowing such things about fellow Stirpes members?

I'll let you answer that for yourself. You're the one who has a problem with those homosexuals and their 'demented antics'. But hey, if you're OK with the idea that there might be closet homosexuals lurking around on this forum then that's one step towards progress.

I can only speak on behalf of myself, but that is certainly not the reason for my opposition to homosexuality and, more specifically, public homosexuality.

How can you be sure? If you're comfortable in your sexuality then why the preoccupation with the disgusting things gay men do in their free time? Why do you spend so much time thinking about that?

We must not forget what the foundations of Europe are - Christianity. No matter your religion, that is the simple reality. I view this tolerance, and in your case, support for homosexuality as a direct and open attack on these foundations.

That is again debateable. Christianity is a Judaic religion and originated in the Middle East, not Europe. Many will argue, including myself, that we owe more to the Ancient Hellenic and then Roman civilizations than we do to Christianity. By the time Christianity arrived on the scene Europe was already a distinct entity. Sure it helped unify Europe, but what at what expense? I will keep my opinions on Christianity to myself for now as they are irrelevant to the thread. But as soon as the power of the church waned the Renaissance happened, arguably the period in history in which Europe learned the most. And yes, you'll be happy to know that some of the great thinkers in the Renaissance practiced homosexuality too.

My personal interest is the preservation of my own specific culture, followed by the preservation of all of Spain, followed by the preservation of all of Europe. I feel that Christianity plays an integral role in all of the aformenetioned, and I feel that such support, tolerance, or indifference of homosexuality stands as an obstruction to that goal.

If you choose to base your perceptions of modern homosexuality on a book that was written thousands of years ago then that really is a shame. You should try and do some thinking for yourself every once in awhile.

Obviously, there are more important problems at hand, as Gil said, but this is certainly a topic worth discussing.

Again, why are you so disturbed by homosexuals?

In the past, such a law was unnecessary. Public disapproval was enough to ensure that homosexuals maintained a level of secrecy. Now, that's not the case. Thus, different, 'extreme' measures need to be explored.

Extreme measures? Hah! That's rich. Last time that happened was in the 1970s when homosexuality was still classed as a mental illness. Homosexuals were locked in a room , given homoerotic pornography and injected with a vomit-inducing serum. The idea was to try and instill a recurring sense of disgust when they thought of naked men. And guess what? It didn't work. It did, however, manage to ruin the lives of thousands of American homosexuals. It's called aversion therapy, you should look it up.

The point is to clearly define that such a thing is unacceptable, rather than taking a laissez-faire stance which only sends the message that going against the foundations of Europe, and thus Europe itself, is completely fine.

LOL.

How do you make the leap from failing to identify homosexuality as unacceptable to going against the foundations of Europe and thus Europe itself?! I made it clear already that Christianity was not the foundation of Europe. Hellenic and Romance civilization were and they both condoned homosexuality in some way. Get your facts straight.

Sure. Neither is the average Muslim or African. So long as they don't harm anyone, who cares, right?

Don't compare European homosexuals with Muslims and Africans. They speak the same language, eat the same food and have the same values as other Europeans. They can't have mixed race children. They are not detracting from the culture and they are not bothering anyone other than latent homosexuals and religious bigots.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Chauntecleer

Why the obsession? What business is it of yours? You shouldn't concern yourself with such things. That is again debateable. Christianity is a Judaic religion and originated in the Middle East, not Europe.

OK, but again, what about the influence of the gay lobby in society, and its constant attacks against the traditional family ?
In France we even now have a law penalizing "homophobic statements".

Christianity is a Judaic religion and originated in the Middle East, not Europe.

Christianity, a Judaic religion ? You must confuse with Protestantism.
Seriously, I think it's rather the opposite : Christianity built itself in opposition to Judaism. You may not like Christian values, but it is not a problem of origin.

Don't compare European homosexuals with Muslims and Africans. They speak the same language, eat the same food and have the same values as other Europeans.

What are these values you talk about ? And what about immigrants who accept such values (integrated) ?