Europeans with jewish ancestry: still europeans?

[Martín Zalacaín]

There's a question I always ask myself: Europeans with jewish ancestry still 'qualify' as europeans? Does it depend on how much jewish blood runs through their veins? What are your thoughts about europeans with jewish ancestors, like the great explorer Sven Hendin or SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich? Is it more a question of wich values and wich culture they embrace? How would you feel if, investigating about your ancestors, you would find that one or some of them are non-europeans? Would it make a difference to you?

Personally, I've got a friend who is half spanish and half hungarian. On his spanish side, his grandmother is descendant of marranos (shephardic jews converted to catholicism in s. XVI)). Would you consider him european? Can someone who is not fully european fully embrace and comprehend european values, culture, history, thought, taste?

In other words: is being european a physical matter, or metaphysical?

I know this sounds so naive, but I'd like to know your opinion. I want to know if I have to beat my friend up for being jewish or if I can welcome him into my WN skin head group for having an 'european soul'

Ps- I don't know if I'm misusing some terms here ('european'); If that's the case, just let me know, please.

[Menydh]

Before I give you my personal view on that question, I have another question for you: if you are in a WN skinhead group, how on earth do you profile yourself as "against the modern world"?

So-called "white nationalism" and the "skinhead" fashion are both products of the modern world. In fact, worse, they are products of an accepted marginality of the modern world.

And now to the question, if you are a white nationalist then it doesn't matter how much Jewish a Jew is, since Jews are "white". You will also find this interesting:

A case of Zionism and WN Racism

As for European, they are not. Those with little ancient Jewish ancestry whose ancestors abandoned Judaism and who have no bonds with Jewish or Judaic communities and teachings, and whose values are those of the Europeans (make no mistakes, so-called "western values" are not the same thing), I suppose that they are European.

However, you put a case of a descendent of a Marrano in Hungary. For your information, the Marranos who went especially to France, The Netherlands and England, but also to Hungary, were influent in the construction of the neo-Judaic corruption of Christianism known as Calvinism. Calvinists are, whether of Jewish ancestry or not, Judaic.

[Martín Zalacaín]

I want to know if I have to beat my friend up for being jewish or if I can welcome him into my WN skin head group for having an 'european soul'

I'm sorry, that was supposed to be a joke. I guess my english is still as underdeveloved as it gets. Or maybe it's just that it's not funny. I agree with your view: skin heads and WN are a subproduct coming straight from the sewers of the modern world. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

However, you put a case of a descendent of a Marrano in Hungary. For your information, the Marranos who went especially to France, The Netherlands and England, but also to Hungary, were influent in the construction of the neo-Judaic corruption of Christianism known as Calvinism. Calvinists are, whether of Jewish ancestry or not, Judaic.

Actually, his marrano 'side' is the spanish one. I didn't know about the link between marranos and calvinism, that's quite interesting. I'll investigate further.

[Laocoon]

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

In other words: is being european a physical matter, or metaphysical?

It's a hard one. It's physical before all, otherwise any extra-European willing to adopt and agree with our cultures and values should be considered as a European, a contrario a whigger can't reasonably be said to be European just because genetics says so.

[Exeter]

Budapest is full of Jews. I met many of them. Many young Israelis also move to Budapest for higher education. They really think of making money. They buy flats in old rundown buildings (mostly in district VI and VII), renovate them and rent them out to gentiles. I have seen this phenomenon in many countries.

I knew a woman in Budapest with Jewish ancestors who were thrown out of Spain. Her English was good. She had lived in England. She was against Zionism and didn't know any Hebrew. I don't know if she was telling the truth or not. Surprisingly, she commented on the phenotypes of different peoples a few times.

Don't forget the father of Zionism was born in Budapest. I can assure you a lot of gentiles in Hungary dislike Jews strongly. They would tell you in private. I got the same impression in Ukraine. I know Hungarians much better though. I personally think one should separate Zionism from anti-Semitism.

I don't mind having Jewish friends. I have partied and had dinner at restaurants with them. I even went to a Jewish New Year party once. My Norwegian friend was drunk and started a fight. It was clear he was being outnumbered and the Jewish bouncer was holding my friend. The bouncer was not very strong. I was sober. I was holding him so he couldn't do anything against my friend. It was a mess. In the end we just left the place. Individually Jews aren't very bold in my experience. They keep together though.

I've also been around Jews in higher education. They are a bit like the Chinese I met. They aren't necessarily more intelligent. I remember how they always seemed very stupid in the beginning. They make up for it with studying hard. They shared notes nd studied together more than others. They basically help each other. Assyrians are a bit similar from what I've seen. Perhaps Armenians as well who are surrounded by people of a different religion. It has to do with people who have been weak or had very little.

With Jews, I got the impression one is always an outsider among them.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

It's a hard one. It's physical before all, otherwise any extra-European willing to adopt and agree with our cultures and values should be considered as a European, a contrario a whigger can't reasonably be said to be European just because genetics says so.

I disagree. I think that it's both physical and metaphysical that matter equally. Culture is maybe even more important than genetic material. Of course, it doesn't mean that I think that genetics is totally irrelevant and it certainly doesn't mean that I think that anyone extra-European can become European only by superficially accepting some cultural norms, language etc.

Europe is full of beaufs who act like niggas, or even worse, proving thus that their genetic inheritance isn't a big deal.

[Laocoon]

Originally Posted by Plethon

I disagree. I think that it's both physical and metaphysical that matter equally. Culture is maybe even more important than genetic material. Of course, it doesn't mean that I think that genetics is totally irrelevant and it certainly doesn't mean that I think that anyone extra-European can become European only by superficially accepting some cultural norms, language etc.

Europe is full of beaufs who act like niggas, or even worse, proving thus that their genetic inheritance isn't a big deal.

It's what my post implied, when I mentioned whiggers I didn't mean anything else than what you said.

What I had in mind also was newborns, in this very case genetics is primordial.

Edit: Another thing... If someone can change his/her behaviour throughout his/her life, the ADN is to remain the same.

[Almost a Christian]

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

There's a question I always ask myself: Europeans with jewish ancestry still 'qualify' as europeans? Does it depend on how much jewish blood runs through their veins? What are your thoughts about europeans with jewish ancestors, like the great explorer Sven Hendin or SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich? Is it more a question of wich values and wich culture they embrace? How would you feel if, investigating about your ancestors, you would find that one or some of them are non-europeans? Would it make a difference to you?

The claims regarding RH have been discredited. But the likes of Hendin (as well as many others) is an excellent example of why I'm delighted to leave the fraught task of devising exacting genetic criteria for the real genetic experts to deliberate over..

I know I'm passionate about my identity, my people. If by some chance there was some chosenite influence in my ancestary, it wouldn't have the slightest impact on my outlook. Thankfully that dilemma does not arise..

[Errigal]

To me the genetic makeup of Jews is of secondary importance; what matters is their attitude to the rest of us. If a person of partly Jewish heritage wanted to earn my trust he would have to prove he puts his adopted European nation's interests ahead of the interests of Jews. That does not mean he must do harm to Jews to prove he can join my club, he just must prove he does not put the interests of himself and other Jews ahead his nation.

Unfortunately a partly Jewish person can be tempted to rejoin the Jewish family to benefit from the Jewish network of mutual assistance in the worlds of finance and politics.

[Marulus]

If someone has some Jewish ancestry, but does not identify himself in any sense as Jew, then he is not a Jew.

[Exeter]

Do you see Jews only as a religion?

FTDNA do not.
"Your ancestors left clues in your DNA that can determine your deep ancestral origins and link you to others in recent time. By comparing your results to our databases - the largest of its kind in the world - we could tell you if those clues indicate a possible Jewish ancestry, or if you are related to someone that is in our database . Our Jewish specific comparative databases are the largest in the world containing records for Jews of Ashkenazi and Sephardic origins, as well as Levite and Cohanim."
Family Tree DNA - we do genetic tests for your genealogy questions!

Originally Posted by Plethon

If someone has some Jewish ancestry, but does not identify himself in any sense as Jew, then he is not a Jew.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Exeter

Do you see Jews only as a religion?

I said: if someone has some Jewish ancestry, it doesn't mean that he is automatically Jew. I didn't mean anyone with Jewish mather and father.

[svin]

Actually usually people even with very distant jewish ancestors are very positive towards Jews and even Judaism.

[Exeter]

I understand. Nevertheless, except the Cohen line which is passed on patrilineally the traditional view of a Jew is one who has been born to a Jewish mother.

From what I know of marriages among acquaintances the non-Jew has converted to Judaism.

Originally Posted by Plethon

I said: if someone has some Jewish ancestry, it doesn't mean that he is automatically Jew. I didn't mean anyone with Jewish mather and father.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by svin

Actually usually people even with very distant jewish ancestors are very positive towards Jews and even Judaism.

Hmm...not necessarily...in my experience most of those with some distant Jewish ancestry did not feel any attachment to it.

Of course, one can assume that they are sometimes just pretending not to care, but if you have a person who would be never accepted as Jew by the Jewish community itself, inspite of some drop of Jewish blood that he maybe has, I don't see any reason why he could have any special relationship with Jewry. Or even if he has, it is in that case only a one-sided relationship: he might be fond of Jewry, but the Jewry not fond of him.

[Exeter]

There are several cases of people who have become curious and proud of their Jewish roots in their senior years.

Originally Posted by svin

Actually usually people even with very distant jewish ancestors are very positive towards Jews and even Judaism.