The non-existent relationship of Turkey with the European civilization

[Waarnemer]

The non-existent relationship of Turkey with the European civilization

The latest speech by the Archbishop of Greece Christodoulos against Turkey's membership to the European Union (EU) agitated the backwater of the Greek political establishment. It is an issue which all parties in the Greek parliament agree on, while the Greek Socialist government and the Liberal Opposition promote it in the EU institutions, without ever explaining to the Greek people what are the consequences of Turkey's membership to the EU. Archbishop Christodoulos had the courage to word not only the truth, which is that Turkey has no position in the EU, but also expressed what the national interests direct.

One wonders how is it possible that the Greek government and Opposition play into Turkey's hands in relation to its EU prospect. European civilization, which is based on the values of ancient Greece, Christianism, the State of Law and civil rights, is in direct opposition to what is Turkey. Turkey is an muslim state with a military-controlled "republic" regime. Does it have any relationship with the values of the Western civilization? Does it belong geographically to Europe? Of course the occupation of Eastern Thrace does not transform a par excellence Asiatic country to a European one. Therefore Turkey does not satisfy any of the criteria which connect the EU nations. Neither political, nor religious, geographical or cultural. Turkey never belonged to the European civilization. The so-called europeanization of Turkey can only cause hilarity.

Archbishop Christodoulos said nothing more than what most Europeans argue for. Let us not forget that many Christian-Democrat MPs by different states, who participate in the European People's Party, have spoken against Turkey's membership to the EU, therefore coming to opposition with Karamanlis, the Greek Opposition leader, who calls for the acceleration of the procedures for Turkey's membership to the EU. Other European leaders suggest to give Turkey a "privileged neighbour relationship" with the EU, with a parallel resignation of Turkey's ambitions for a full membership. Recently the EU rejected Turkey's demand to start immediately membership negotiations. The former German chancellor Helmut Schmidt said that he considers the prospect of Turkey's membership to the EU from unrealistic to disastrous. In a recent poll in Germany, 42% of the Germans came out for Turkey's membership only "under conditions". What does membership under conditions really mean? The rejection of Turkey's membership by the Germans.

Last month the European Commission in Brussels stressed that the occupation of Northern Cyprus is an obstacle to the European ambitions of Turkey, while the Commissioner in charge of the EU enlargement Gunter Verheugen clarified that "it is inconceivable for a state-member of the EU to be protected by UN forces", referring to Cyprus. It is indeed an oxymoron an EU candidate state to occupy the land of an EU member state. The reactions against the entry of Turkey to the EU are many all over Europe. Turkey has not convinced the European partners that she respects human and political rights.

The bitter truth worded by Archbishop Christodoulos may disturb the political regime of the Socialist Party PASOK and the Liberal Party New Democracy, but come up to the feelings of the European nations. New Democracy maintained dead silence for the Archibishop's speech, obviously for vote-hunting reasons, while PASOK and various "progressives" attacked him because they cannot forgive him for expressing national views. Of course the "Midnight Express" culture which Turkey is well-known for, is not far from the Gulag culture which was enforced by their ideological fathers, but is poles apart from the Greek and European culture which accept freedom of speech and human rights.

The Greek government says that the EU prospect of Turkey serves our national interests. But how? If for example 200.000 Turks come and settle in Western Thrace, a feasible hypothesis, are our national interests served? Others say that Greece supports Turkey's membership to the EU to turn down the tension in our bilateral relations, throwing the ball to the other Europeans. Such a short-sighted and detrimental for our national interests policy could only be applied by PASOK and New Democracy. Hellenic Front and the European nationalist parties are against Turkey's membership to the EU. However in case Turkey joins the EU, Hellenic Front argues that Greece should immediately leave the EU, because this is the only way to safeguard our national interests and identity.
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Say NO to turkey's EU membership!!! it will be the beginning of the end. If the european end isnt already started Now its turkey (with its major non-white non-european population) but what will be next? Morocco? We already given away our lands in the streets of our major cities, now we gone give it as a present on the political level to countries that were, are en will be the enemies of europe, now and in the future.

[Ederico]

Do you have a source for that article?

[Ederico]

Ok, I found a source:
http://www.e-grammes.gr/2003/12/chri..._turkey_en.htm

[Folk you]

Do the Turks that are in Europe now adopt european ways or do they usually retain the ways of their home country?

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Folk you

Do the Turks that are in Europe now adopt european ways or do they usually retain the ways of their home country?

I believe that usually depends on the socio-economical situation of the people, those with higher education tend to adopt the ways of the country they live in whereas the lower classes stick to tradition. I would think it's pretty much the same for any immigrant population in any country. It certainly is the case in the US.

[Folk you]

I see. The same thing happens here with the refugees who stick to their old ways, which causes a few "problems".

[Helith]

Originally Posted by Folk you

Do the Turks that are in Europe now adopt european ways or do they usually retain the ways of their home country?

Unfortunately it very much seems that they do not adopt the ways of their chosen country but tend to insist on retaining their original ways...But yes this seems to depend on the socio-economic status as well, though not always.

Does Turkey really belong to Europe????? Stupid question in my opinion but I do wish for some comments...

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Folk you

Do the Turks that are in Europe now adopt european ways or do they usually retain the ways of their home country?

I believe that the mid-upper classes adopt "western ways" which are not, stictly and properly speaking, "European ways".

An example of "westernism" with a good dosis of "white nationalism":

A case of Zionism and WN Racism

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I believe that the mid-upper classes adopt "western ways" which are not, stictly and properly speaking, "European ways".

Actually in France Turks are the immigrants who are the least integrated. They are very conservative and most of the Turkish adults don't even speak French.
The integration of the Turks is even more difficult than the integration of the Northern Africans, because Northern Africans generally have French as mother-tongue. Turkish "mid-upper classes" almost don't exist, or they are a really, really tiny minority. I would say 95% of the Turkish immigrants here retain the ways of Turkey, speak Turkish, feel Turkish, are Muslim practicants, most of the Turkish women still wear their tchador ...
Unfortunately this is not the case for Northern Africans (Arabs and Kabyls) who are more and more integrated.

[Gil]

Not many turks here....make that almost non-existant?! I've never meet a turkish living in Portugal but culturally they are not Europeans though they have a shared history.

[Menydh]

Elsasser, yes.. well, we don't get Turks here either (touch on wood), so your observation for France is surely right. I've seen some in London, and there it was like I said, "westernized" mid-upper classes and "traditional" working classes.

Notice that I'm using "westernized" in between quotes, to differentiate it from "europeanized".


Manji, a shared history... yes, we can say that they stole a good share of the History of Europe.

[Blood Axis]

Originally Posted by TseBbe

..therefore coming to opposition with Karamanlis, the Greek Opposition leader, who calls for the acceleration of the procedures for Turkey's membership to the EU.

A minor correction here:

Karamanlis (or Karaman-Ali as some people call him ) is not the Opposition leader but the Prime Minister. Unfortunately.

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Der Elsasser

Turkish "mid-upper classes" almost don't exist, or they are a really, really tiny minority.

I had met a few families from Turkey while I was there with my father on more than one occasion but they were mostly businessmen and diplomats, they speak quite impeccable French (obviously, especially the high ranking diplomats) so they would be harder to spot. Also diplomats don't usually mix in with the everyday people and their children go to special International Schools -the ones I had met did, anyway.

[Alkman]

Originally Posted by Blood Axis

A minor correction here:

Karamanlis (or Karaman-Ali as some people call him ) is not the Opposition leader but the Prime Minister. Unfortunately.

Would you prefer Giorgakis Papandreou instead?

[Rusalka]

What is it that he's got on his trouser leg?

[Alkman]

I don't know,maybe toilet paper

[Theobald]