Islam enemy or a potentional ally?

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Spartadux

Let us not forget the history in all sides, let us not fall in the trap of neocons doctrine of moronics of Bush.

I fail to see what Bush or the Neo-Conservatives have to do with this. It is quite clear for me.

Who are these immigrants that are coming into Europe by hordes? Most of them are muslim, some come from africa, others from asia. Are we to accept them with open arms, as brothers?

[Menydh]

Spartadux, spare us all this b/s at once!

The Muslims are coming by the millions, they are demanding that schools drop our traditions to accomodate their offspring, they are ruining our neighbourhoods installing themselves in and turning them into stinky bazaars, they are forcing our governments to change laws to better suit them, they are using and abusing our social services and profiting them to deliver their brethen which, one borned here, automatically get the citizenship, they are obtaining all kind of official help to build their mosques in our cities, and the list goes on and on and ad nauseam.

What the hell are you going to tell next that they are.. tourists? They are here to stay and to bring in more of their kin.

Are you trying to trick anyone into believing that if we are against Islam we are for the US? I'll remind you that it is the US that is trying to force an Islamic country, Turkey, in Europe. It is the US that has defended the Bosnian Muslims against an European country, Serbia, and now the terrorists in Kosovo.

You are either much confused or you are trying to confuse. And, for your information, a spirit of protection against Islam exists in Europe since we first met them, long before there were any stupid Bush around, Neocons, or any damned American over the face of earth.

I've seen this before, a 'nationalist' defending alliances with Islam. I'll spare names here. I will only say that it disgusts me and that it looks to me much suspicious.

[Spartadux]

The name of the thread is "Islam enemy or a potentional ally?" and not if we all support a globalization project in Europe, neither if we ask or desire a massive islamization of Europe.

If we focus question I i say yes for the reason which brought Axis to have alliance and cooperation with freedom movements of Panarabism or also with Islam as a religious identity ("sword of Islam" gifted to Mussolini and a deep attention for the aims of Gran Muftì of Jerusalem hosted by Adolf Hitler in Germany).

The reason is not ,i superpoint at maximum, to overturn religious Identity of Europe and not certainly a will to racemixing with Arabs or semitic, the aim is to rescue european power and influence in mediterranean issues both economically and politically.

I don't want to pay Oil in $ but in Euro as an example, i want to have free markets and flux of goods and resources in advantage of Europe for having development.
Indeed i want to break the net of US financiary power above Europe and Mediterranean Sea.
For this aim i have to cooperate with subjects who are fighting for indipendence of their countries whatever religion they belong to, and Islam is one of those subjects. ONE not the unique as long as it's "real Islam" and not an operation of US secret services as talibans and Bin Laden or a product of Heroin and cigarettes smuggling interest of money cleansing (commonly in bankist system of stock exchange's world) as we know for KLA in Kossovo.
There are other subjects as Identitarian Eurasiatics in the Russians who, not for madness, demands a self identification with Orthodox background but without denying Islam as the II faith of Russia, as well of other faiths as Buddhism in East or Russia.
Just for specify that the interest is to reach a vital space of European economy in a geopolitical logical way,thus we will have control and cooperation with areas of resources of energy we will have indipendence; nowadays we don't have freedom neither economical indipendence: we are dependants of wim of money of Bankers and Merchants in $ whose control is overwhelming in major areas of geopolitical interests as Suez and Turkey and Oil lands (with an "ad hoc" class of Wahabi shayks, corrupted and traitors.

I don't see where i stated that i'm pro islamization or pro immigrants?Where?

Until a clever Europe was in possibility to have hands in Africa and Asia no immigration occurred and no economical disorder was upcoming. With the end of european policy with III world it did came subversives reds guerrillas and massive bankist neocolonization so within 20 or 25 years Islam cames out in a degenerate kind and the economy of III world was disgregated.
That's the cause of immigration in Europe now, and for stopping this we have to begin again to cooperate fiercely but cleverly with nearest areas of Mediterranean Sea and with their spiritual paths.

NOt for allowing them caming here to destroy us but for giving them possibilty to stay there in dignity and without ties of usury covered by "WTO or IMF" or worst more, covered by humanitarian intervention with other US colon troops.

Of course none will say that neofascists want Islam in Europe but we stand against the wars of US imperialism as a way to force a gloalization on Europe.

[Spartadux]

Originally Posted by Timo

I fail to see what Bush or the Neo-Conservatives have to do with this. It is quite clear for me.

They want to suck our resources in a weakening war of civilities, Europe is losing all political influence and USA is bringing confusion in lands were Europe had interests and economical relationships and Irak is an example, but a strong coperation already exists in Iran.

Using those "terrorists" often left free to achieve targets of political terror USA is forcing all countries to accept militar interventions and economical intrusions.
In this case Islam is a possible Troy Horse for disgregation of Europe but the revolutionary Islam is not pro USA but anti USA and not disposed to emigrate.

So i must support those islamic for having control over arabs who will stay at home without caming here in anger for exploiting Europe.

[Spartadux]

Originally Posted by Prinz Eugen

Do you mean an org call Avanguardia or something like that?

Anyway you were right with Avanguardia, it's the org in Italy which brings idea of Eurasia-Islam project, but in sometimes they are not appreciated because of their polemistic view of naitonalist enviroment.

I either don't like them so much because they are fanatics, but the substance of the projects should be seen as revolutionary idea of the political struggle.

Avanguardia has posted some reports on Radio Islam

[Pandur]

'Islam enemy or a potentional ally?'

Both.

Its ok to use Muslims against greater foes, but when it comes to Muslim immigration and prevention of Islamic terrorism on European soil, the measures against Muslims should be drastic. We must not allow Turks and Arabs to change our race and our culture.

[Spartadux]

Originally Posted by Pandur

'Islam enemy or a potentional ally?'

Both.

Its ok to use Muslims against greater foes, but when it comes to Muslim immigration and prevention of Islamic terrorism on European soil, the measures against Muslims should be drastic. We must not allow Turks and Arabs to change our race and our culture.

This is a clever way to approach to the problem because it does distinguish the issue of immigration by the issue of relationships with other areas outside Europe.

The things are different also because there are europeans who are in Islam now and who don't reject their cultural origin, and many of them whose i have knowledge never want to marry an arab or having sons with Arabs.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Spartadux

The things are different also because there are europeans who are in Islam now and who don't reject their cultural origin

Nonsense. From the moment that they have embraced Islam they have rejected their European culture.

I won't say this enough: Islam is not only alien but opposed to everything which Europe stands for and signifies.

One thing is that Hitler made use of some Islamists in the past, when they represented no danger whatsoever. Still wrong in my book, unless used as colonial troops. An altogether different thing is approaching Islam today, when their demographic strength is huge, when Islam preaches its religious expansion through the sword, and when Europe is indeed a target of Islam.

Why on earth should I feed them? Why do you?

In good old times in Spain even a few noblemen to tried to protect their Islamic subjects from expulsion, were trialed under the accusation of 'islamicizing'. Which is exactly what you are doing here.

[etoile noir]

The things are different also because there are europeans who are in Islam now and who don't reject their cultural origin,

spartadux, i am having problems understanding many of your replies. the above is particularly baffling. could you please explain? if you prefer to use italian i would happily translate for the benefit of those who don't understand italian.

till now i am completely contra your posts and am in complete agreement with Mynydd

thank you

[Timo]

I am having a suspicion that Spartadux is a moslem. I hope that is not the case, however.

[Almost a Christian]

I don’t give a damn what religion anyone is today…..they can worship the clouds for all I care….but whatever the dubious record of Islam in the past…This I know for sure: The Islam of today is completely incompatible with European civilisation….


One condition must remain insoluble:


Religious dogma must not interfere with the interests of the poeple.


The Germans use of Muslim auxiliaries during WWII was I believe legitimate one being part of a grand alliance against godless Bolshevism that would’ve serious implications too for Asia, if Russia had collapsed….dressing them up in SS regalia was on Himmler’s initiative (perhaps to keep such a huge resource of soldiers under his jurisdiction, jostling with the ordinary army apparently overriding his normal zealous racial scruples) Hitler viewed this as a dubious exercise at best….

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Juan Perón

I don’t give a damn what religion anyone is today…..they can worship the clouds for all I care….but whatever the dubious record of Islam in the past…This I know for sure: The Islam of today is completely incompatible with European civilisation….

I care as long as these people are planning on killing our peoples and taking over our lands in the name of their fictional God. I care what they believe because their beliefs are hand in hand with their actions. One must understand one's enemy. Islam of the past is the mirror to Islam of the future. They haven't given up their quest to take Europe, to take the world, for that matter. They are spreading themselves accross the world: In Asia, they've firmly planted themselves in the south from Arabia to Indonesia. In Africa they are spreading south like a plague. And then in Western Nations they don't use war like they do in Asia and Africa because they know the western militaries are too powerful to confront outright. Instead they use the countries' liberal policies agianst them and flood the country with moslem immigrants. Not long ago a Mosque in a northern-european town would've thought to have been a ludicrous notion, now they are common place. Mosques which preach hatred agianst their host countries. In germany, I recall them catching a Priest (what is Islam equivlant?) talking about Germans in terrible light, saying we are smelly beasts because we don't shave under our arms, and so on. (I wish I had the transcript)
It is common place within Mosques to teach their moslems followers to not trust the non-believer, to struggle against them and they read from passages in the Koran which state that all non-moslems must be killed, converted or forced to pay a tax on their existance. These were the words of their holy prophet, and thus words of Allah. It says also in the Koran that if a moslem doesn't follow and believe all that which is said therein, they are to be smited because they aren't true moslems, and are traitors.

The Germans use of Muslim auxiliaries during WWII was I believe legitimate one being part of a grand alliance against godless Bolshevism that would’ve serious implications too for Asia, if Russia had collapsed….dressing them up in SS regalia was on Himmler’s initiative (perhaps to keep such a huge resource of soldiers under his jurisdiction, jostling with the ordinary army apparently overriding his normal zealous racial scruples) Hitler viewed this as a dubious exercise at best….

The Third Reich also made use of Indian (Asian type) soldiers who were wanting indepence from Great Britian. In the War, soldiers were needed, and they took the ones they could. I don't for one secound believe that National Socialism, under Hitler, would stand to see Moslems take over Europe through mass immigration. In fact he would be stanchly agianst it. The German people praised such heros like Prinz Eugen for crushing the moslem turks and driving them from European cities such as Belgrade. It is one of my favourite songs, Prinz Eugen, der edle Ritter, the Leipzig 1719 version that is. Prinz Eugen also had things named after him in the Third Reich.

[Spartadux]

Originally Posted by Timo

IIn the War, soldiers were needed, and they took the ones they could. I don't for one secound believe that National Socialism, under Hitler, would stand to see Moslems take over Europe through mass immigration. In fact he would be stanchly agianst it. The German people praised such heros like Prinz Eugen for crushing the moslem turks and driving them from European cities such as Belgrade. It is one of my favourite songs, Prinz Eugen, der edle Ritter, the Leipzig 1719 version that is. Prinz Eugen also had things named after him in the Third Reich.

For what i know Hitler said once that in a religious confrontation between Islam and Christianity he would have preferred islam. He told it in occasion of a conversation about the famous battle of Poitiers, he said it would have been better for Europe the victory of Islam.

NS opened the doors to non Germanic Waffen SS in aim to create an Elite of warriors for a new Order of Europeans: the muslim in SS weren't arabs but Bosnians and Albanians, both, in evidence to a whatever map, Europeans.
I read Leon Degrelle who was a real heroe of SS and he talked often about the SS of Muslim religion and about the great respect they had from Hitler himself who personally ordered a gift of thousands of golden neckchains with the first verse of Quran.
In Italy the book i mentioned is known as "Waffen SS, the big unknown", i posted the link of http://www.Radioislam.org where there are sentences of Hitler's opera about Islam and NS policy for the islamic world.

But i have to remember that none accepted immigration at the age and still now none between nationalists wants to accept immigration, me neither. But i separate immigration issue, which is a big problem and one of the main problems in Europe, BY the issue of international policy and cooperation with the islamic and arab world (Islam is not always arab could be also made by other races) in order to achieve control over resources of energy and in order to have free access on the market of goods in Euro or in order to achieve control over comunication lines whose control now is under USA (Turkey Egypt, Gibraltar, etc) because of the sold out Governments of those countries.

Europe hasn't territories in the west, or better saying it has small space and no resources, the Eurasia-Islam project is elaborating a scenario of new paneuropean nationalism in cooperation with Islamic world which aims freedom and indipendence by USA sold out leaderships. This was the project of Thiriarth of Paneuropean "Jeune Europe" and this is the project of Eurasia Islam now.
If some wants resources can see the site of http://www.eisernekrone.tk and write to the owner who is a german and who writes in english too. The cooperation with Islamic world can produce a better economical status free from Usury of $ and free from Sionist venom of multiracialism. So the immigration would have no reason to exist anymore.
Rihgt now the mass immigration is wanted by the present economical system and the manipulating of Wahabi Islam is a project of USA policy (the clash of civilization was a best seller in USA and was teorized by think tank of USA Council of Foreign Relations)) for pushing Europe and Mediterranen world in a wasteful clash of civilization. They need useful idiots for this purpose and the "idiots" are a certain Islamic fundamentalism ( in past this fundamentalism was feed by CIA for subversion of Middle East and now is caming useful once again) and the leftwingers which ideologize immigrants against European folk, on the other side there is necons and extremists of Right if right is pro NATO, pro Sionism, pro liberism and pro Bush Berlusconi Aznar and Blair (de facto a rightwing in economical and political way).
Of course immigration is needed for polluting Europe and sickening our policy but i thin that is important to separate the 2 issues because we confuse

• the support to Islamic liberation movements anti New World Order and which are composed by people who don't want to emigrate but to fight in their countries without losing cultural identity
• The attention of movements of liberation in all world, whatever religion they could be, if they stand for their cultural and economical freedom against the NWO, EXPECIALLY IF THEY ARE NOT MARXIST but identitarian and traditionalist for national indipendence.
• the immigration issue made by 90% non religious immigrants who only want money, work and exploitation of our space, race mixing as much as they can if they are outside practise of Islam.

I'm not NS but i think NS deserves more respect than the huge ignorance of so called "neonazi" who even ignore who Hitler really was and what Hitler had in mind about the non germanic race.
But the "system" now says the Hitler was a monster, a Lord Dread of Star Wars, a hater of subhuman races and so on. So it's strange to think that in Germany there were Mosques (strange enough or not!?) and the SS commander of the Turkhestan Legion was Harun al Rashid Bey, a German converted to Islam since WWI when he was a collecting officer in Turkey. There were some germans converted to Islam and none objected to this choice.

Today is different, of course there is huge migration and not certainly a migration of good quality but a mass of "Paria" which often attend to bad degrading attitudes in our cities.
So the situation is changed much since the age of NS: Europe now doesn't have any power because european folk is suiciding itself with globalization and liberalism, and in this situation a strong identitarian and religious subjetc is harassing our identity as Islam does usually because they feel us as weak and corrupted in totally different way as they could have seen us at the age of NS or Mussolini. But the Islam of we are talking about is not Islam of Sufism and Alhambra but Islam of Lumpenproletariat, of Ignorance and of feeling of Revenge against ex colonizers; something very easy to express because of our attitude to get down the slips in front of whatever immigrant. But our reaction even if is, rightly said, a reaction of defence of race folk and nation, cannot be a low side politic as it's done by a certain rightwing which support wars of Israel and USA for defending Western world (which world?The world of Bankers and Usurians) mixing the Real Europe of Tradition with the enemy of WWII who wanted this bloody world of globalization and now is conducing crusades of Hipocritical neocolonialism.

I hope to be clear also if my english is quite rusty and out of exercise, but over all i hope that some will stop the crap of me being Muslim because is something of bad taste just because i'm part in Italy of the Italian Traditional Movement for restoration of the ancient spiritual path of precristian religion.
Etoile Noire i don't think to being obscure in my explanations, i can miss some words but the contest is quite clear and if you disagree with me is not because i'm not writing clearly but because you just think different.

For me to define myself a nationalist and a folk defenders is not enough if some doesn't stand for the cultural and economical indipendence of other exploted peoples. It's a non sense.

[Menydh]

Notice: I have deleted a post from Spartadux which included pro-Muslim graphical propaganda, and I have banned him for it and for keeping a pro-Islamicist agenda.

1 (a). This is a board for European Nationalists. Views, ideas, and contributions that are opposed to European Nationalism, ethnic, as well as cultural preservation or critical thereof, are not permitted anywhere but in the Camara Obscura forum.

With my best regards to your Mullah.

[Aeternitas]

LOL. Now that he is banned he can use his time to reflect upon the 'peacefulness' of Islam

Hitler was also not as much pro-Islam as some may think.

[Menydh]

Go figure. Hitler would have prefered an Islamic victory of Islam at Poitiers. Or who knows if a Zulu invasion. After all Zulus are a traditional people.

All his babbling about that "Eurasian project" and Islam... where have I read similar stuff before now?

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Spartadux

For what i know Hitler said once that in a religious confrontation between Islam and Christianity he would have preferred islam. He told it in occasion of a conversation about the famous battle of Poitiers, he said it would have been better for Europe the victory of Islam.

You know very little, it seems. Hitler was a Catholic, even spoke of God and Christ, he wasn't in the slightest anti-christian. Nor was he some boogy-man occultist that some yankees and their post-war propaganda would want you to think. Hitler even led his followers in prayer from time to time. He was religious, dispite what some would say or want you to believe.

First photo: Hitler leading prayer
"Der ergreifende Abschlub der Kundgebung in Wien: Wir treten zum Beten..."

Secound photo: Hitler greets a Catholic Cardinal

Third photo: Hitler leaving a catholic church after services