Islamic Europe -vs- Materialist Europe

[Gavril]

I wouldn't mind discussing Islam and similarities with Christianity, but I would want to do it in a theological context. You are disguising similarities with Islam as similarities with muslims in a completely different context, which is manipulative, even if smart.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Faustas

I wouldn't mind discussing Islam and similarities with Christianity, but I would want to do it in a theological context. You are disguising similarities with Islam as similarities with muslims in a completely different context, which is manipulative, even if smart.

You are referring to Gonzalvus' position, I guess?

[Martín Zalacaín]

Originally Posted by Faustas

I wouldn't mind discussing Islam and similarities with Christianity, but I would want to do it in a theological context. You are disguising similarities with Islam as similarities with muslims in a completely different context, which is manipulative, even if smart.

Are you implying that I'm a Muyahedin undercover? Anyway, I agree. This thread has been a failure since its very start, I shouldn't have brought it up as I did.

Originally Posted by Marulus

Important thing is to realize that it is an alien culture...period. You don't tolerate an alien culture, which might even worship the same God but in wrong way, some other, alien god, or god of the Klingonians.

Theological hair-splitting did not save any nation/culture. I don't say that I dismiss theology, I am talking about hair-splitting.

If I could, I would ship every muslim residing in european soil back to their lands. But that does not prevent me from trying to understand their culture and learning from them.

I would understand the approach you take on this matter from an atheist person, who dismisses religion as nonsense. But from a religious perspective it is indeed very important if the millions of muslims that live in Europe worship the same God than us or a repulsive desert demon. We can discuss it in another thread, if you want. (Although I do not have much more to say on this).

[Gavril]

No, I didn't mean to imply anything. Surely you know that by posing such a dilemma, you are encouraging people to show which ideals they are more willing to give up than others. Good set-off for discussions. Only the options in the poll in this thread were too closed.

Marulus, yes.

[Martín Zalacaín]

Originally Posted by Faustas

No, I didn't mean to imply anything. Surely you know that by posing such a dilemma, you are encouraging people to show which ideals they are more willing to give up than others. Good set-off for discussions. Only the options in the poll in this thread were too closed.

Yes, closed and silly. I regret that now, it could have been done in a more smart way.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

But that does not prevent me from trying to understand their culture and learning from them.

In principle nothing wrong with that. On condition you find something you can learn..

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

I would understand the approach you take on this matter from an atheist person, who dismisses religion as nonsense. But from a religious perspective it is indeed very important if the millions of muslims that live in Europe worship the same God than us or a repulsive desert demon. We can discuss it in another thread, if you want. (Although I do not have much more to say on this).

How is this related to faith, religion, atheism or anything? Throughout history peoples and kingdoms warred each other, even if they believed in the same God. In other cases they believed in different gods. You are bringing into connection totally disparate things and mixing up different levels: the spiritual and the temporal one.

[riga]

The central theme of Islam is:

There is only one God,
There are higher and lower beings (angels and demons) and spirits,
There's a Hereafter,
There is a Final Judgement (Karma-related),
There is no Son of God; Jesus was a prophet,
There is no Chosen People.

In addition to that there are a few rules to live by:

Pray daily (5 times),
No pork,
No alcohol during religious services (most Muslims say that one shouldn't drink at all),
Fast once a year (Ramadan),
Pilgrimage (optional).
Takecare of the poor.
Consider Mohammed as the final, ultimate prophet.

I lived in the Middle East for some years and I was considered a Muslim by many because I agreed with the central theme.
Not agreeing with the rest made me a not so good Muslim.