Science and Islam in Conflict

[Ikutiera]

All over the world, no matter what the cultural or language differences, science is more or less guided by scientific principles—except in many Islamic countries, where it is guided by the Koran. This is the ultimate story about science and religion.

...

The Islamic world looms large in the history of science, and there were long periods when Cairo—in Arabic, El Qahira, meaning “the victorious”—was a leading star in the Arabic universe of learning. Islam is in many ways more tolerant of scientific study than is Christian fundamentalism. It does not, for example, argue that the world is only 6,000 years old. Cloning research that does not involve people is becoming more widely accepted. In recent times, though, knowledge in Egypt has waned. And who is accountable for the decline?

El-Naggar has no doubts. “We are not behind because of Islam,” he says. “We are behind because of what the Americans and the British have done to us.”

...

The influence and popularity of El-Naggar—as a frequent guest on Arab satellite television, he reaches an audience of millions—does not sit well with Gamal Soltan, a political scientist at Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies, a Cairo-based think tank.


“This tendency to use their knowledge of science to ‘prove’ that the religious interpretations of life are correct is really corrupting,” he tells me. Soltan, who got his doctorate at the University of Northern Illinois, works in a small office that’s pungent with tobacco smoke; journals and newspapers lie stacked on his desk and floor. “Their methodology is bad,” he says. Soltan explains that Islamic scientists start with a conclusion (the Koran says the body has 360 joints) and then work toward proving that conclusion. To reach the necessary answer they will, in this instance, count things that some orthopedists might not call a joint. “They’re sure about everything, about how the universe was created, who created it, and they just need to control nature rather than interpret it,” Soltan adds. “But the driving force behind any scientific pursuit is that the truth is still out there.”
Researchers who don’t agree with Islamic thinking “avoid questions or research agendas” that could put them in opposition to authorities—thus steering clear of intellectual debate. In other words, if you are a scientist who is not an Islamic extremist, you simply direct your work toward what is useful. Scientists who contradict the Koran “would have to keep a low profile.” When pressed for examples, Soltan does not elaborate.

What about, say, evolutionary biology or Darwinism? I ask. (Evolution is taught in Egyptian schools, although it is banned in Saudi Arabia and Sudan.) “If you are asking if Adam came from a monkey, no,” Badawy responds. “Man did not come from a monkey. If I am religious, if I agree with Islam, then I have to respect all of the ideas of Islam. And one of these ideas is the creation of the human from Adam and Eve. If I am a scientist, I have to believe that.”
But from the point of view of a scientist, is it not just a story? I ask. He tells me that if I were writing an article saying that Adam and Eve is a big lie, it will not be accepted until I can prove it.
“Nobody can just write what he thinks without proof. But we have real proof that the story of Adam as the first man is true.”
“What proof?”
He looks at me with disbelief: “It’s written in the Koran.”


Source




Sheikh Abdul-Majid al-Zindani, president of the Al-Iman University, has announced that he, with the help of a handful of scientists, has crafted a medicine formulated to cure HIV/AIDS patients.The news immediately provoked a flurry of controversy among regional and international health professionals, researchers, and academics, many of whom remain highly skeptical of al-Zindani’s claim.

Al-Zindani, who is the head of the Committee of Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran, an affiliate of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, claimed that the research carried out by the Research Center at his Islamic school to treat HIV/AIDS carriers has born fruit. The announcement has been made repeatedly on a number of occasions; the most recent of which was during the celebration of the World AIDS Day, held in Sana’a University under the patronage of the Health Minister.


Many people were less than enthusiastic about al-Zindani’s announcement. Dr. Jamil al-Mughales, the head of the Clinical Immunology Services of King Abdul Aziz University, said that if he were the Minister of Health, he would put al-Zindani in jail. “Me and my friends were totally upset about the way he is dealing with the disease,” he said. “I am one of the people who personally saw the blood test of one of the patients, who was told by al-Zindani to have sex with his wife because he is virus-free, but then when I saw the results, he still had HIV,” he said.

Controversial sheikh claims AIDS cure

[NatVox]

Originally Posted by Ikutiera

Islam is in many ways more tolerant of scientific study than is Christian fundamentalism. It does not, for example, argue that the world is only 6,000 years old.

It's actually Judaism that argues (against science) that the Universe is 6,000 years old and rejects evolution.

The film Jurassic Park, for example, was condemned in Israel by Orthodox rabbis for this reason.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

It's actually Judaism that argues (against science) that the Universe is 6,000 years old and rejects evolution.

The film Jurassic Park, for example, was condemned in Israel by Orthodox rabbis for this reason.

Perhaps they should see the dinosaur bones then.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

It's actually Judaism that argues (against science) that the Universe is 6,000 years old and rejects evolution.

The film Jurassic Park, for example, was condemned in Israel by Orthodox rabbis for this reason.

Protestant fundamnetalists with their ridiculous Creationism are nearly as ridiculous.

[NatVox]

It is not as if they don't know that they are there.

But they have us used to an image of the Muslim as a fanatic lunatic freak contrasted with the Jewish as a "civilized westerner". Can't see much of a difference between one and the other, really.

Or, speaking of "civilized westerners", those Christian Identity American freaks.

[Vasconcelos]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

It's actually Judaism that argues (against science) that the Universe is 6,000 years old and rejects evolution.

Would you mind going into this a little more, Mynydd? My father is a Tridentine Catholic who firmly believes that the world is only 6,000 years old. I haven't read the Holy Bible and assumed that this was common teaching, so I'm curious to gain a better understanding.

[Waarnemer]

Originally Posted by Vasconcelos

Would you mind going into this a little more, Mynydd? My father is a Tridentine Catholic who firmly believes that the world is only 6,000 years old. I haven't read the Holy Bible and assumed that this was common teaching so I'm curious to gain a better understanding.

it is common teaching

[NatVox]

It's also common knowledge that the Bible should not be interpreted literally.

Remind me to translate this sometime: Catholic.net - Creación, evolución y magisterio de la Iglesia católica

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Protestant fundamnetalists with their ridiculous Creationism are nearly as ridiculous.

Heu it's not only the Protestant Fundamentalists or the the Jewish Orthodox. I don't know if all of them do, but some (Catholic) Traditionalists actually believe this.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Heu it's not only the Protestant Fundamentalists or the the Jewish Orthodox. I don't know if all of them do, but some (Catholic) Traditionalists actually believe this.

Some do believe, but that is not an article of the faith. It is largely irrelevant to the faith, in the Catholic context.

[Ikutiera]

Fundies Say the Darndest Things! - An archive of the most hilarious, bizarre, ignorant, bigoted, and terrifying quotes from fundies all over the internet! The FSTDT archive is the largest collection of fundie quotes on the planet, with More than 18708 archived quotes this very second!

One of the most basic laws in the universe is the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This states that as time goes by, entropy in an environment will increase. Evolution argues differently against a law that is accepted EVERYWHERE BY EVERYONE. Evolution says that we started out simple, and over time became more complex. That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it.

FSTDT Top 100

[Gnist]

Originally Posted by Ikutiera

All over the world, no matter what the cultural or language differences, science is more or less guided by scientific principles

I'm not impressed.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Some do believe, but that is not an article of the faith. It is largely irrelevant to the faith, in the Catholic context.

You'll have to teach Traditionalists what it is to be a Roman Catholic.

I guess it's not so irrelevant given it is written in their holy book in which they believe.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

You'll have to teach Traditionalists what it is to be a Roman Catholic.

It appears that it is rather you who are trying continually to teach everybody what is to be Christian (which is strange since you are not Christian, no problem with that, it's your own thing, but why then insisting on "teaching" what is Christian and what not?)...this is not the first time...

Originally Posted by Carnyx

I guess it's not so irrelevant given it is written in their holy book in which they believe.

*yawn*

This may degenerate in thousandth discussion on this issue, due to the fact that some people have some tiny little obsessions of theirs, and therefore attach too much importance to it.

Some points were discussed here:

Council of Europe to vote on creationism

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Marulus

It appears that it is rather you who are trying continually to teach everybody what is to be Christian (which is strange since you are not Christian, no problem with that, it's your own thing, but why then insisting on "teaching" what is Christian and what not?)...this is not the first time...

This is not the first time that what? I'm teaching nothing, I at least have not this pretension. From a Traditionalist point of view, they are authentic Christians, you and I are not really. I mean nothing more.

Visibly you can't stand to be ""taught"" (or is it friendly discussions that you can't handle?) by someone else than yourself, but I will teach you something.

FYI, since it seems to be so relevant (I wonder why, anyway?), I'm baptized, i.e. Christian. Of course I'm not religious, I'm agnostic, but I'm sure you are visiting your St Pie X community at least once a week and attending the office every Sunday and confess every time you sin. Being a good Christian starts with faith, but it is far from being enough.

*yawn*

You should sleep more. It would avoid your regular outbursts and apologies that follow via PM.

This may degenerate in thousandth discussion on this issue, due to the fact that some people have some tiny little obsessions of theirs, and therefore attach too much importance to it.

You are a little too thin-skinned, my comment was purely anecdotical.