Italy plans to fingerprint Roma

[orieleye]

Italy's interior minister has sparked criticism with a proposal that would see police fingerprinting all members of the Roma community living in camps.

Roberto Maroni, of the anti-immigrant Northern League, said the move would guarantee that those with the right to stay could live in decent conditions.

Those without that right, including children, would be sent home, he said.

The UN Children's Fund (Unicef) has criticised the proposal, as have opposition MPs.
Mr Maroni said the fingerprinting of Roma - or Gypsy - people would include "children too, to avoid phenomena like begging".

Since Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was returned to power in elections two months ago, his government has focused on law and order, says the BBC's Christian Fraser in Rome.

The blame for the rising crime has fallen on the Roma gypsy community and, in recent weeks, camps have been raided by police while others have been attacked and burnt by vigilante mobs, our correspondent adds.

Stunned and concerned

Opposition MPs said it was wrong to treat children as criminals.
Rosy Bindi, who held the post of family minister in the centre-left government that was ousted in January, said the initiative was "unacceptable".

It would lead to an "ethnic register" that would "treat Roma children as if they were hardened criminals", she said.

The head of Unicef Italy, Vincenzo Spadafora, said his organisation was "stunned and deeply concerned" by the proposal.

"We'd like to suggest to him (Mr Maroni) that to respect all children's right to equality he should record all Italian children in the same way," said Mr Spadafora.

"Roma children are no different from other children. Moreover children cannot and should not be treated as adults."

Meanwhile, Amos Luzzatto, the former president of Italy's Union of Jewish Communities, said the measure was a form of "ethnic surveying".

"You start like this then you move on to the exclusion from schools, separated classes and widespread discrimination," he said.

Recalling how Jews, Roma and other minorities were targeted during Italy's years of fascism, he accused the country of having "lost its memory".

[ Source ]

[Susi]

Ohh this sounds oddly familar... I feel as if this will only end in the Roma asking, 100 years down the line, for compensation and having a sense of entitlement due to "poor treatment"... just deport them to some far off island or something... >_>

[Llywarch Hen]

Originally Posted by Susi

just deport them to some far off island or something... >_>

Er, but not OURS, okay!

How ridiculous to compare the situation with that of Italian children, born into the country through Italian parents! These Gypsies came for the privilege of living in Italy, not because of any right! Those who afford them the privilege have the clear right to enforce restrictions to ensure it is not abused. End of argument. Don't like it, leave.

[M.R.]

Roma? WTF is that? They mean the football club?

It's GYPSIES for f???'s sake.

Also, the great argument = Recalling how Jews, Roma and other minorities were targeted during Italy's years of fascism, he accused the country of having "lost its memory"

Let me tell you something about bad memory... Forgeting what happened few weeks ago when gypsies tried to steal that child is not 'bad memory' I guess..

[Kernunnos]

It is a norm against the enslavement of gypsy kids, that are sold, mutilated, beaten, kept chained, abused to be sufficiently pitiable for eliciting our guilt feeling so granting their Roma exploiters a rich booty in charity money.

The ones who fail their daily money goal are beaten again or maimed worstly to make them more pitiable.

A poignant report by "Il Giornale" newspaper has made public wiretaps of Roma lowlife chiefs vaunting to have their little slave chained in the cold to keep them quiet.

Since they are usually sold by parents to distant relatives, fingerprinting is a way to detect slave children.

How racist a measure this is, folks.

[Susi]

To me it has nothing to do with apparent racism but the harm it will do to the Italians in the future...

It reminds me of the Natives in Canada, their history... it's rather different (the Natives were there first) but now the Natives often hold hostage land that is being developed and demanding money for it even though their tribes sold it to non-Natives 100 years ago... They don't pay any taxes either and expect to get lots of money out of the Canadian government anyways for past abuses -_-

[Kernunnos]

See this fresh news of yesterday: eight Roma arrested in Verona. They forced their offspring to steal in apartments under the menace of incestuous rape.



"Obbligavano i figli a compiere furti: otto rom arrestati
Li minacciavano di violenza sessuale, impartendo loro ordini con i cellulari

Li minacciavano, obbligandoli a compiere furti nelle abitazioni, pena il subire violenze sessuali. E\' quanto scoperto dalla Squadra mobile di Verona, che con un blitz, coordinato dalla Procura di Verona e dalla Procura dei minori di Venezia, ha portato all\'arresto di otto nomadi rom di nazionalità croata, di cui sette adulti e un minore.
"

[M.R.]

Originally Posted by Susi

To me it has nothing to do with apparent racism but the harm it will do to the Italians in the future...

It reminds me of the Natives in Canada, their history... it's rather different (the Natives were there first) but now the Natives often hold hostage land that is being developed and demanding money for it even though their tribes sold it to non-Natives 100 years ago... They don't pay any taxes either and expect to get lots of money out of the Canadian government anyways for past abuses

Yes it is VERY different since the natives in Canada are the only ones which have the rightful claim to that land, unlike Gypsies here. They have the right to do anything they won't there, of course not that money would somehow make things even with them, but it's a completly different situation.

[Ferran]

Italy rebuke on Roma fingerprints

The fingerprinting of Italy's Roma community has already begun

Italy's fingerprinting of members of the country's Roma community is a direct act of racial discrimination, the European Parliament has said.

In a resolution adopted by 336 votes to 220, MEPs called on Italy to bring the practice to an immediate halt.

Italy's foreign minister said the move was "politically motivated and based on prejudices" against the country.

The government says it has begun fingerprinting as part of a broader crackdown against crime.

The resolution called on Italy "to refrain from collecting the fingerprints from Roma, including minors, as this would clearly constitute an act of discrimination based on race and ethnic origin".

Strong message

It also "condemned utterly and without equivocation all forms of racism and discrimination faced by the Roma and those seen as 'gypsies'".

Italy's right-wing government introduced the fingerprinting measure saying it would cut crime, avoid children being used for begging and help identify illegal immigrants for expulsion.

An estimated 150,000 Roma live in Italy, mainly in squalid conditions in one of an estimated 700 encampments on the outskirts of major cities such as Rome, Milan and Naples.

Italian newspapers have published pictures of officials taking fingerprints from gypsies living in and around the southern city of Naples and filing the prints according to religion, ethnicity and level of education.

The European resolution, while non-binding, does send out a strong political message.

The lawmakers urged the European Commission to see if the Italian measures - which have also been criticised by UN children's agency Unicef - were violating European law.

But former EU Justice Commissioner and current Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini defended the measure which he said "does not target ethnic groups and is not inspired by racism but by the elementary need to identify anyone who does not have a valid document".



Source: BBC NEWS | Europe | Italy rebuke on Roma fingerprints

[Susi]

Originally Posted by M.R.

Yes it is VERY different since the natives in Canada are the only ones which have the rightful claim to that land, unlike Gypsies here. They have the right to do anything they won't there, of course not that money would somehow make things even with them, but it's a completly different situation.

I know it's very different -- but when they've sold it, they've sold it (main point of what I was saying) yet they still claim it. It's like I sell you a house and then 120 years later I say (well my descendents) I didn't mean to sell you the house and sit outside it, harrass you and demand the house back or lots of money in repayment.

What I meant is that the way in which the Gypsies will react to such "oppression" will be similar and that it's important to analyse other cases in which the outcome would be similar -- the Gypsies would make similar demands but unlike the Natives would have absolutely no grounds.

[M.R.]

Originally Posted by Susi

I know it's very different -- but when they've sold it, they've sold it (main point of what I was saying) yet they still claim it. It's like I sell you a house and then 120 years later I say (well my descendents) I didn't mean to sell you the house and sit outside it, harrass you and demand the house back or lots of money in repayment.

Their land, their rules.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by M.R.

Their land, their rules.

I guess I should start filing my land claims in England then.

[Llywarch Hen]

Originally Posted by Susi

I guess I should start filing my land claims in England then.

It's alright, you can have mine. I spend so much time flitting between my Slovenian and Spanish villas...

[The Venetian]

Have you been fingerprinted by the Police ? ( I hope there aren't any criminals in this forum )Some countries fingerprint ALL their adult citizens - ID cards which are compulsory.

Do you agree with this policy ?

[M.R.]

No I don't approve with any of this.

[Germanicus]

It seems Italy by hook or by crook will address this problem of Gypsys.
The Italian people expect the goverment to act decisively, which they are. Can we expect more Euro countries to follow suite in this bold action? who knows.