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Human Applied Sciences Establishing relationships, similarities and differences within the human genome.

 
 
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Old Friday, January 2nd, 2009, 07:11
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Default Genetic Legacy of Alexander's Armies in Pakistan and Afghanistan

I would like to share a short translated summary of an interesting article that I found on the internet.

Antanas Poška (1903-1922) was a Lithuanian traveller, scientist and anthropologist.
In 1931, Poška, Kaunas University graduate was accepted to the university of Bombay. He visited many places in Asia but was most fascinated by his visit in Baltistan located to the south of Pamir Mountains, Hindu Kush mountain range.
Poška thought that people of Baltistan, the Kalash are far descendants of balts-aistians. People of Baltistan were described as tall, light-haired and blue-eyed. Wooden huts with roofs of straws and ornaments of tulips on the window shutters were very similar to those in Samogitia and Dzukija in Lithuania. People of Baltistan were described as very different to their asian-looking neighbours not only in the way they look but in the way they dress, build their houses too.

While visiting this region, A.Poška wrote down many poems of Baltistan.
(These are the examples of similarities between Baltistan language and Lithuanian)

dhana - duona (bread)
dango - dangus (sky)
jis - jis (he)
aš - aš (I, me)
atmana - atmintis (memory)
prad - pradėti (to begin)
laba - gerai (good)
zemindaras - žemdirbys (farmer)

1933 07 12 zemindaras of Baltistan Karulas Daulatas sang a song to A.Poška:

Mana hridi mušei.
Mana kalva dardi.
Dusti dusti tao
Sesa broli stav
Prasada gaide.

Translation to Lithuanian:

Mano širdis muša,
Mano galva krinta (darda).
Dūstu, dūstu be tavęs
Sesuo, brolis stovi
Prašo giedoti (dainuoti).


(My heart is beating/My head is falling/I am choking, choking without you/Sister,brother are standing/Asking to sing)

A.Poška wrote an article about his findings to “National Geographic” which was only of 16 pages at the time. The author was admitted to the association of geographers. And then the soviets came, Poška was sent to Siberia, his papers were burned or something, same old story.

I've read somewhere that both Greeks and Bulgarians have opened special funds because this nation is thought to be the descendants of warriors of Alexander The Great. However "DNA research shows that, even though the Kalash lack Greek haplogroups (e.g. haplogroup 21), recent analysis of the y-chromosome indicates that, the Greek admixture could be as high as 20% to 40%. Considering the apparent absence of haplogroup 21 in the local population, the findings have been chalked up as genetic drift. On the basis of Y chromosome allele frequency, some researchers describe the exact Greek contribution to Kalash as unclear. Surprisingly, mtDNA research has shown that there is no South or East Asian genetic mtDNA influence within the Kalash."





[IMG]www.indiamike.com/photopost/data/508/medium/6271blondie.jpg[/IMG]
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genetic-legacy-alexanders-armies-pakistan-afghanistan-kalash_6.jpg   genetic-legacy-alexanders-armies-pakistan-afghanistan-kalash_7.jpg   genetic-legacy-alexanders-armies-pakistan-afghanistan-kalash_8.jpg   genetic-legacy-alexanders-armies-pakistan-afghanistan-kalash_9.jpg   genetic-legacy-alexanders-armies-pakistan-afghanistan-kalash_10.jpg  

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Old Friday, January 2nd, 2009, 09:52
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I did a quick google on this and so far I've found nothing indicating that Balti would be anything else than a Tibetan dialect. The Kalash on the other hand speak an Indo-European language.
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Last edited by Routasydän; Friday, January 2nd, 2009 at 12:42.
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Old Sunday, January 4th, 2009, 00:50
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What are they doing down there????
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Old Sunday, January 4th, 2009, 05:08
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The region where the Kalash live is called Kafirstan. The name was given after the Muslim invasion. Kafir is an Arabic word that means unbeliever. They are Pagans.

Another ethnic group in the area which is also believed to be descended from the troops of Alexander are the Hunza or Burusho. Among the Hunza it is usual to find people with Mediterranid phenotypes. They belong to the Muslim heresy of the Ismailis.

A team of Greek, Pakistani and US American geneticists found a small contribution of Greek DNA among the Hunzar, but none among the Kalash. The abstract is here:
Quote:
Investigation of the Greek ancestry of populations from northern Pakistan

Received: 8 August 2003 Accepted: 24 January 2004 Published online: 25 February 2004

Abstract

Three populations from northern Pakistan, the Burusho, Kalash, and Pathan, claim descent from soldiers left behind by Alexander the Great after his invasion of the Indo-Pak subcontinent. In order to investigate their genetic relationships, we analyzed nine Alu insertion polymorphisms and 113 autosomal microsatellites in the extant Pakistani and Greek populations. Principal component, phylogenetic, and structure analyses show that the Kalash are genetically distinct, and that the Burusho and Pathan populations are genetically close to each other and the Greek population. Admixture estimates suggest a small Greek contribution to the genetic pool of the Burusho and Pathan and demonstrate that these two northern Pakistani populations share a common Indo-European gene pool that probably predates Alexanderrsquos invasion. The genetically isolated Kalash population may represent the genetic pool of ancestral Eurasian populations of Central Asia or early Indo-European nomadic pastoral tribes that became sequestered in the valleys of the Hindu Kush Mountains.
Apparently the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia attempted to use the Burusho to link themselves to the Ancient Macedonians, but a 1999 genetic study found no elements of Balkanic genetics among the Burusho.

A more recent genetic study from 2006 places the Pathans the closest to the Greeks of the 3 groups claiming to descend from Alexander's armies: European Journal of Human Genetics - Y-chromosomal evidence for a limited Greek contribution to the Pathan population of Pakistan

The Pathans are also known as Pashtuns and live in Afghanistan and in Pakistan.

A group of Hunza women


Hunza children


This pretty much settles two questions. One that of the Greek origin of the Ancient Macedonians which is further supported by the finding of Greek related DNA in these peoples.

The other question would be about any speculation of a Nordic Macedonia. Need I say more?

And additional question could be a question mark on the Indo-European, Eurasian component of Ancient Macedonians and Greeks. Since one of the haplogroups that has been found that serves to link these peoples to the Greeks is E3b (E1b1b), it would point towards a Eurafrican source. Not Eurasian.
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Old Sunday, January 4th, 2009, 05:52
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Quote:
Genetic Legacy of Alexander's Armies in Pakistan and Afghanistan
More likely they simply are remnants of the Aryan invasions.

Last edited by Jacob Le Bin; Sunday, January 4th, 2009 at 07:01.
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Old Sunday, January 4th, 2009, 14:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savorgnan View Post
More likely they simply are remnants of the Aryan invasions.
In the case of the Kalash, yes. But the genetics of the Hunzar/Burusho and of the Pathan/Pashtuns are a different thing and points to a Greek Macedonian remnant. Especially considering that one of the Y-Chromosome haplogroups that point to this link is E1b1b, which is unrelated to the Aryan.
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"…never before has a lack of truthfulness played such a large and important role in philosophy."
"They did whatever they felt like doing with concepts. As if by magic they changed anything into any other thing."
–Ortega y Gasset on German Idealism


"In consequence of Kant's criticism of all speculative theology, almost all the philosophizers in Germany cast themselves back on to Spinoza, so that the whole series of unsuccessful attempts known by the name of post-Kantian philosophy is simply Spinozism tastelessly got up, veiled in all kinds of unintelligible language, and otherwise twisted and distorted ..."
–Schopenhauer on German Idealism


[...] Que a nosotros, que nacimos de celtas y de iberos, no nos cause vergüenza, sino satisfacción agradecida, hacer sonar en nuestros versos los broncos nombres de la tierra nuestra [...]
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Old Sunday, January 4th, 2009, 14:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savorgnan View Post
More likely they simply are remnants of the Aryan invasions.
True, because even if they have Greek influences, even significant Greek influences, it doesnt explain their physical phenotype. The racial form of all that people, if they are relatively unmixed with later groups like Turko-Mongols, Arabs etc., is following a certain gradient from North to South and different ethnic groups being more isolated show more often lighter coloration and otherwise rather Nordiform traits.

This can be seen in the Kalash, Pathans, Kashmiris and the Aryans of Nepal f.e., partly even further South into India here and there at least and practically always more often in the higher castes.

The Greek influence can be responsible for individuals here and there, probably even for small ethnic groups, but not for the whole pattern which is quite old, partly predates the Aryans but being strengthened by them.

Like one study quoted above said:
Quote:
Admixture estimates suggest a small Greek contribution to the genetic pool of the Burusho and Pathan and demonstrate that these two northern Pakistani populations share a common Indo-European gene pool that probably predates Alexanderrsquos invasion.
If looking at the map the whole issue is pretty simply, if seeing that Central Asia was Europid and had strong Nordeuropid/Cromagnid influences.
Once there was a fluent border between Nordoid - Iranoid - Nordindid.

Afghanistan was just and still is border land, while the rest being destroyed.

Also compare:
Andronovo culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

with this political map:
http://www.centralasiatravel.com/ima...l_asia_big.jpg
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