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Human Applied Sciences Establishing relationships, similarities and differences within the human genome.

 
 
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Old Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 22:12
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Default Historical genetic geography of Europe and beyond

Does anyone know the extent of published works and data with genetic samples from around Europe, and beyond at different pre-modern dates in history?

It would be interesting to know the genetic composition of both autosomal and maternal/paternal genomes at different times, especially of different empires and civilizations like Ancient Greece, Sumeria. But also different countries and the individual changes that have occured as a result of migrations over time.

I don't know how many genetic pre/protohistoric samples there are, but with even a tiny amount from every age it would be possible to compile it into genetic geography of various ages.
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Old Monday, October 13th, 2008, 03:13
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Default Re: Historical genetic geography of Europe and beyond

There has been some research with ancient DNA. In one paper I read that, for example, geneticists had extracted a few samples of DNA from Iberians, which is just a luck because Iberians cremated their deads and only a few have been found non cremated. I'm not sure about this, but I believe that they concluded that ancient Iberians' DNA did not differ that much from modern Iberians'.

However, there are two problems when working with ancient DNA. One problem is that it is very difficult to extract a sample, because DNA degrades. The other problem is contamination, which can have happened anytime since the death, after the body has been manipulated by other humans. Or simply the same archeologist who has found it, may contaminate the body with his own DNA.

The application of genetics to study past populations is called Archaeogenetics.

Archaeogenetics
Archaeogenetics: DNA and the Population Prehistory of Europe.
From molecular genetics to archaeogenetics
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Old Monday, October 13th, 2008, 03:33
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Default Re: Historical genetic geography of Europe and beyond

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Originally Posted by Menydh View Post
There has been some research with ancient DNA. In one paper I read that, for example, geneticists had extracted a few samples of DNA from Iberians, which is just a luck because Iberians cremated their deads and only a few have been found non cremated. I'm not sure about this, but I believe that they concluded that ancient Iberians' DNA did not differ that much from modern Iberians'.

However, there are two problems when working with ancient DNA. One problem is that it is very difficult to extract a sample, because DNA degrades. The other problem is contamination, which can have happened anytime since the death, after the body has been manipulated by other humans. Or simply the same archeologist who has found it, may contaminate the body with his own DNA.

The application of genetics to study past populations is called Archaeogenetics.

Archaeogenetics: DNA and the Population Prehistory of Europe.
From molecular genetics to archaeogenetics
Ah, yes, I had forgotten about this particular term.

The wikipedia page mentions The History and Geography of Human Genes by Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza.

Another approach at archaeogenetics is tracing migration patterns through haplotypes.

One thing that remains unclear is the origins of male lineage in Western Europe, the geographical movements of the R1-haplogroups.

The predominant theory about the genetic origins of Atlantic Europe can be summarized as follows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
It is thought that ancient Iberia served as a refuge for palaeolithic humans during the last major glaciation when environments further north were too cold and dry for continuous habitation. When the climate warmed into the present interglacial, populations would have rapidly spread north along the west European coast.
Some new analysis and data that utillizes haplotypes, however, which has been ignored, seems to make this theory an impossibility.

It would be interesting to see if more direct DNA analysis of ancient Europe could shed some light on it. But the problem, as you mention, is acquiring uncontaminated and undegraded preserved samples.
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Old Monday, October 13th, 2008, 05:03
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Default Re: Historical genetic geography of Europe and beyond

I wonder if Renfrew's book "Archaeogenetics: DNA and the Population Prehistory of Europe" is worth a reading. Since it was published in 2000, I wouldn't expect it to have much factual information on ancient populations genetics.
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"…never before has a lack of truthfulness played such a large and important role in philosophy."
"They did whatever they felt like doing with concepts. As if by magic they changed anything into any other thing."
–Ortega y Gasset on German Idealism


"In consequence of Kant's criticism of all speculative theology, almost all the philosophizers in Germany cast themselves back on to Spinoza, so that the whole series of unsuccessful attempts known by the name of post-Kantian philosophy is simply Spinozism tastelessly got up, veiled in all kinds of unintelligible language, and otherwise twisted and distorted ..."
–Schopenhauer on German Idealism


[...] Que a nosotros, que nacimos de celtas y de iberos, no nos cause vergüenza, sino satisfacción agradecida, hacer sonar en nuestros versos los broncos nombres de la tierra nuestra [...]
–Marco Valerio Marcial–
 

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