Greatest European military leader ?

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Waarnemer

france? wasn't he italian?

He was born in French Corsica and saw himself as a French. You can read his Testament too.
Anyway - although his ethnic background was indeed mostly Italian - his military skills undoubtely came from his French education (he studied in French military schools, Brienne and then the Royal Military School of Paris). Also, his military successes would not have been possible without the strength of France and French soldiers.

[Strengthandhonour]

Yeah you are right regarding those points. But if an African is born in French-Algeria does that make him an ethnic French? He might have considered himself a Frenchman at the end and he got to where he did with the help of the French, but the blood in Napoleone Di Buonaparte was still Italian.

[Waarnemer]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

Yeah you are right regarding those points. But if an African is born in French-Algeria does that make him an ethnic French? He might have considered himself a Frenchman at the end and he got to where he did with the help of the French, but the blood in Napoleone Di Buonaparte was still Italian.

should i suspect differed from you?

[Strengthandhonour]

I don't know, that's up to you to decide I am just stating the facts here.

[Theobald]

Of course SH, I never denied his blood was Italian.
But my point is - leading French soldiers, with a French military education, the title of Emperor of the French, the goal to expand France's borders and glory - as a military leader he was French.

[Ferran]

I go for Joan of Arc, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Hernán Cortez and El Cid. I'm not a big fan of modern warfare.

Btw, did you know that Joan of Arc, Alexander the Great, Charlemagne, Julius Caesar and Napoleon Bonaparte were left-handed?

[Strengthandhonour]

I am left-handed too. Maybe a 100 years from now people will be talking of my great accomplishments ...or not

[IrishThirdPosition]

Rommel, without a doubt. A man of such greatness that he was out of place in the 20th Century. An example of all that was good about NS, and a victim of all that was bad about it.

I might have voted for Jan Sobieski if he was on the list... his contribution was just as important, particularly for the survival of Europe.

[Aptrgangr]

I voted for Napoleon, because he was a genius and directly led his army and not only sat on a throne; and for Rommel, he did well as Desert Fox.
I also would have voted for Armin (aka Arminius, Herman) the Cheruski for his guerilla tactics.

[M.R.]

I forgot to explain why I voted for Napoleon and Charlemagne... Not only that they were good military leaders, but also French people have done a lot of good things for Slovenians, more than any other European nation. When Charlemagne and Franks arrived here they helped to protect our country against Avars, because our country was part of European Christendom, later they helped to establish Kingdom of Carantania (Regnum Carentano), which was rulled by Arnulf of Carinthia. He was half-Frank (descendant of Carolingian dinasty)/ half-Slovenian and were popular here, he later became emperor.

We also have good memories on Napoleon - he supported what we call period of national awakening and overall he was much better for Slovenians than Hapsburgh idiots. There were some Slovenians serving in Napoleon's army - duchy of Carniola had to give 16000 soldiers.



Napoleon's Stone in Radovna valley, Slovenia

[Sinergia]

I voted for Cortés, Pizarro, Gustavo Adolfo II and the other would be Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba "el Gran Capitán".

[Vasconcelos]

I'm going to be different and suggest that Viriato is the greatest European military commander. I'm biased, but hey . . .

Besides, it's not easy for a Lusitan shepherd to defy all of Rome.

[Caesar Princeps]

I voted Caius Iulius Caesar, as he pulled to the best the Roman military machine. He subjugated 3 millions Gauls (1 million dead, 1 million prisoners), with no more than 50000 Legionary (according to Plutarchus). His double siege in Alesia is still a masterwork of tactics, the same is for Farsalus. Not to speak about his charme on the troops.

Rommel is the second in my opinion. He was excellent both as a Colonel (Caporetto, 24 October 1917) and later as a General. He could command small and grand units with the same dexterity and flexibility. What a pity he was not successful as he was forced to confront superior means and had little logistic and political support.

Gustav Adolphus Waasa was also very valiant and intelligent. He also managed to impose a strict discipline on his troops.

Napoleone Bonaparte (Italian ethnicity, French nationality), was a genius but, after 1808 he started collecting a serie of embarassing blunders (Russia, Leipzig, Waterloo). It seems that health problems had affected his military abilities.

Friedrich II von Hohenzollern was a great political and military leader, but he was too contemptous of human lives, and often he suffered great losses for his aggressive strategies, which sometimes forced him to defeat or retreat.

Alexandros Megas won his battles more with his charisma and courage than with military abilities (in tactics and strategy he was surpassed by his general Parmenion, and also the Theban Epamynondas).

Hernan Cortes and Pizarro were very audacious and cunning but I don't think they were very important as military leaders.

Zhukov and Blucher were very good generals but they were not exceptional. The same can be said for kings who displayed good political abilities and great valour in battle but no actual military excellence (Richard I Plantagenet Lionheart, Karolus Martellus, Karolus Magnus, Peter the Great).

Jeanne d'Arc was either an instrument in God's hand (which I strongly doubt), or a charismatic mystic (such as Rasputin and others, especially in Islamic culture) but definitely not a military leader. The battles were planned by those knight who believed in her (D'Alençon and others).

Adolf Hitler had better been far from his general officers. Gross mistakes such as Dunquerque and Stalingrad brought him to ruin. Other German Generals, first of all Guderian were far far better.

Why are Prinz Eugen von Savoie, Wallenstein and Montecuccoli not present?