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History General History. The History of Europe and the World, from the Classic Era to modern days. Lost, Ancient and Classic Worlds, their origins and the causes that led to their rise and fall.

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Old Sunday, January 29th, 2006
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Default The Polish origins of Szczecin, Poznan, Wroclaw and Gdansk

This seems to be a particularly delicate issue amongst the German and Polish posters on Stirpes, and unfortunately results in conflict more often than it should. Both sides seem to stick to one side of the story, depending on where they originate from, but I think that facts speak for themselves, and I simply wanted to perhaps end this pathetic and rather sad conflict in the hope people here would come to grips with reality on this matter ie. It's time to stop hating, there are bigger problems in our respective countries:

The Origins of Poznan/Posen:

The first settlements in what is now Poznań can be traced to the late period of the Stone Age. Later various cultures developed here in the Bronze Age and Iron Age.

The first stronghold was built in the 8th-9th century AD on the Ostrow Tumski - an island in the forks or Warta and Cybina rivers. Subsequently it was surrounded by various settlements on the islands and on both banks of Warta river. In 10th century Poznań and Gniezno were the main sites of Polish dukes and centres of the developing Polish state. In 968 the first Polish bishoprics and the first Polish cathedral were founded here (first bishop was Jordan). First Polish monarchs of the Piast dynasty Mieszko I, Boleslaus I The Brave and Mieszko II Lambert are buried in the Poznań cathedral.

The Origins of Wroclaw/Breslau:

Situated at a long existing trading place, a city was first recorded in the 10th Century as Vratislavia (Wratislaw) (the origin of its various later names) after Vratislav I. The settlement was conquered by the Polish duke Mieszko I in the 900s. Already a place of some importance, it became the capital of Silesia in 1138, where Silesians had founded a settlement south of the river. During the Mongol invasion in 1241 most of the population of the city was evacuated. The settlement was then sacked and burned by the Mongols, but they had no time to besiege the castle where the rest of the burghers found refuge.

Documents of the time refer to the town by many variants of the name, including Bresslau, Presslau, Breslau and Latin Wratislaw. The restored Wrocław town was given Magdeburg Rights in 1262. The first illustration of the city was published in the Schedelsche Weltchronik in 1493.

The Origins of Gdansk/Danzig:

According to archeologists, the Gdańsk stronghold was built in the 980s by Mieszko I of Poland. However, the year 997 has in recent years been considered to be the date of the foundation of the city, this being the year when Saint Adalbert of Prague (sent by the Polish king Boleslaus The Brave) baptized the inhabitants of Gdańsk (urbs Gyddanyzc).
In the following years Gdańsk was the main centre of a Polish splinter duchy ruled by the Dukes Of Pomerania The most famous of them, Swietopelk II of Pomerania, granted a local autonomy charter in ca. 1235 to the city, which at the time had some 2,000 inhabitants.

The Origins of Szczecin/Stettin:

To begin with -
  1. Szczecin comes from the word szczyt which means peak, hill top in modern Polish, but also a long shield in Old Polish. So Szczecin means a town located on a hill top, or a town fortified as a stronghold.
  2. Szczecin comes from a personal name Szczuka and means Szczuka's town
  3. Szczecin comes from a personal name Szczeta/Szczota and means Szczota's town
  4. Szczecin comes from a word szczecina which means bristle. So Szczecin is a town with many swines, or a town fortified like bristle. If this is true Szczecin could be identified with Burstaborg mentioned in the Scandinavian chronicles.
A stronghold of the Lusatian culture was here in the early Iron Age period. Another stronghold of the Pomeranians was built in the 8th century at the ford of the Oder River. The city was already a flourishing trading centre with 10,000 inhabitants when it was subjugated and baptized by Boleslaus III Of Poland. A medieval municipality was granted autonomy in 1243. Till the 1630s, Stettin was the capital of the Duchy of Pomerania ruled by the Slavonic Griffin dynasty, of Slavic origins, although the city and western Pomerania became gradually, and entirely, German.

Sources for these statements were gathered from Encyclopedia Britannica as well as the online Wikipedia. I prefer not to post unrecognized sources, on the grounds of historical/archeological credibility.

I welcome any comments on these statements, and hope this topic won't be destroyed by overtly Polish and German nationalistic stupidity.
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Old Sunday, January 29th, 2006
Menydh
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Default Re: The Polish origins of Szczecin, Poznan, Wroclaw and Gdansk

The discussion could be most interesting if it is kept civic by both contending sides. Just two notes to your post: if by "recognized source" you mean "reliable", wikipedia is not a reliable source by any standards. Rather the opposite. The second note, in your last paragraph your comment seems to imply that nationalistic views (on any side) are stupid. Surely you didn't mean to equate nationalism with stupidity..
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Old Sunday, January 29th, 2006
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Default Re: The Polish origins of Szczecin, Poznan, Wroclaw and Gdansk

Are you sure about that sir? The quotes from Wikipedia show up in all major encyclopedias and online, they are just more simplified and user-friendly on Wikipedia, so are you trying to tell me it is all unreliable nonsense? If necessary, I can provide sources which you would consider reliable, university sources etc.

Secondly, I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by Nationalism in this case. It is good to be nationalist and stand by your country, but the kind of blind and biased nationalists that can be found in all the major European forums, the kind that cannot accept their countries faults and live according to a one-sided story, are the ones I was refering to.

Last edited by Wilkolak; Sunday, January 29th, 2006 at 10:57.
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Old Sunday, January 29th, 2006
Menydh
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Default Re: The Polish origins of Szczecin, Poznan, Wroclaw and Gdansk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkolak
Are you sure about that sir? The quotes from Wikipedia show up in all major encyclopedias and online, they are just more simplified and user-friendly on Wikipedia, so are you trying to tell me it is all unreliable nonsense? If necessary, I can provide sources which you would consider reliable, university sources etc.
We have already seen in the past how any anonymous idiot can go to wikipedia and write an article which can be accepted by wikipedia as reliable.

Am I sure? As sure as I can be. We had to complain when they included Stirpes as a link in a wikipedia article, of something that Stirpes is not about.

In other words, unreliable crap and much worse..
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Old Sunday, January 29th, 2006
Menydh
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Default Re: The Polish origins of Szczecin, Poznan, Wroclaw and Gdansk

By the way, those "major online encyclopedias" that you are refering to are nothing but different URLs for the same project of wikipedia.
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Old Sunday, January 29th, 2006
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Default Re: The Polish origins of Szczecin, Poznan, Wroclaw and Gdansk

I do agree with you in many cases, anything circa 1930's-1950's is usually something not to be taken into account, but all I was saying is that in this case, the info checks out with most major encyclopedias and many, many Internet sites, and I posted it because it is more concisely put than dedicated articles on this matter. BTW. The "online" I mentioned are not online encyclopedias, but researched articles by historians and archeologists.
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