European Civillian Casualties of WW2

[Lutiferre]

First, I dont mean the holocaust. I mean European civilian deaths directly caused by the Axis, and no one else.

Anyone have some knowledge about the official figures, and perhaps their accuracy?

If no official figure exists, for this specific kind of casualty (i.e. Europeans killed by the Axis), could someone try to make an estimate or research it?

I am not posting this in revisionism as a statement; I am not proposing that we should make it a goal to revise the figures of WW2 casualties, unless there is reason to that is. I simply want to know if there is reason to, and I am posting it in this section because this question may or may not require some research.

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

The total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II was roughly 72 million people. The civilian toll was around 47 million, including 20 million deaths due to war related famine and disease.

[Big Bwana]

Do you include Russians in that question.?

[Lutiferre]

I suppose, but due to the political factors of Russians in specific, two figures (one inclusive, and one exclusive) would be best.

[Big Bwana]

Austria. 40,500
Belgium. 49,600
Bulgaria 3000
Czechoslovakia. 43,000
Denmark. 1000
Estonia. 40,000
Finland. 2000
France. 267,000
Germany. 1,500,000
Greece. 220,000
Hungary. 80'000
Iceland. 200
Ireland. 200
Italy. 145,100
Latvia. 147,000
Lithuania. 212,000
Luxembourg. 1300
Malta. 1500
Netherlands. 88,900
Norway. 5800
Poland. 2,440,000
Rumania. 64,000
Sweden. 200
Switzerland. 100
United Kingdom. 67,800
Yugoslavia. 514,000

Soviet Union. 11,400,000

[Carnyx]

France. 267,000

It goes more like this:

350,000 civilians (of course not all of them were killed by the sole Axis)
250,000 military casualties
600,000
1.5 %

Why would Russians not be included?

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

It goes more like this:

350,000 civilians (of course not all of them were killed by the sole Axis)
250,000 military casualties
600,000
1,5 %

Why would Russians not be included?

What did you mean 1,5%?

And supposedly because I could figure out that many Russians would have died at the hands of the axis, so a figure with and without is best.

But it's not just civilians I need - its exclusively European civilians killed by the Axis, the full numbers.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Big Bwana

Austria. 40,500
Belgium. 49,600
Bulgaria 3000
Czechoslovakia. 43,000
Denmark. 1000
Estonia. 40,000
Finland. 2000
France. 267,000
Germany. 1,500,000
Greece. 220,000
Hungary. 80'000
Iceland. 200
Ireland. 200
Italy. 145,100
Latvia. 147,000
Lithuania. 212,000
Luxembourg. 1300
Malta. 1500
Netherlands. 88,900
Norway. 5800
Poland. 2,440,000
Rumania. 64,000
Sweden. 200
Switzerland. 100
United Kingdom. 67,800
Yugoslavia. 514,000

Soviet Union. 11,400,000

Thanks a lot, if those are the authentic numbers. Do you have a source?

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

What did you mean 1,5%?

That is to say 1.5% (not 1,5% -my mistake) of total French population died.

[Vityaz]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

It goes more like this:

350,000 civilians (of course not all of them were killed by the sole Axis)
250,000 military casualties
600,000
1.5 %

Why would Russians not be included?

AFAIK - The soviet casualties are a mediocre estimate at best. Out of those casualties it's almost impossible to know how many were Europeans.

[Carnyx]

Oh and by the way, the allied bombardments killed more French civilians than the Axis.

Originally Posted by Vityaz

AFAIK - The soviet casualties are a mediocre estimate at best. Out of those casualties it's almost impossible to know how many where Europeans.

Were there many non-Europeans in the zone occupied by Germans at that time?

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Oh and by the way, the allied bombardments killed more French civilians than the Axis.

Were there many non-Europeans in the zone occupied by Germans at that time?

Could you get the identical figures for the Allies?

How many European civilians did the Allies kill?

[Vityaz]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Were there many non-Europeans in the zone occupied by Germans at that time?

Not particularity but there were many divisions from all over the SU that fought on the eastern front. Of course the large majority of the casualties sustained were by Europeans.

[svin]

Not particularity but there were many divisions from all over the SU that fought on the eastern front. Of course the large majority of the casualties sustained were by Europeans.
Edit/Delete Message

Sure, but the question was about civilians.

[Weltschmerz]

Originally Posted by Vityaz

Not particularity but there were many divisions from all over the SU that fought on the eastern front. Of course the large majority of the casualties sustained were by Europeans.

Originally Posted by svin

Sure, but the question was about civilians.

I never got this fully confirmed, but I have read things to more or less suggest that many of the Russian casualties were actually killed by Russian troops, in the tactics of the burned ground for example. Do you know anything about this?

What is rather commonly represented is that the strategy of the Red Army - or say a lack of strategy, lacking maintenance of field gear and an abundance of troops - made for an abundance of casualties. I'm not saying that all of this is correct, I'm just interested in discussing it.

[Vityaz]

Originally Posted by svin

Sure, but the question was about civilians.

Right -Then practically all of the civilian casualties would have been European, except for some Tatars.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

Could you get the identical figures for the Allies?

How many European civilians did the Allies kill?

Hard to say. Couldn't find many infos but just to give you an idea, the French campaign (Axis') would have caused the death of 20,000 civilians (out of a total of ~ 300,000).

[Big Bwana]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

Thanks a lot, if those are the authentic numbers. Do you have a source?

MTV.

























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