Hans Günther Hoax about the "Denordisation of Italy"

[Cirrus]

There is the same hoax about the "denordization" of France.

Here are samples of French people classifed as Nordic by Günther (in "The Racial Elements of European History") and their color portraits to compare :

Claude of France :

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King Henry II :

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Colbert :

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Napoleon :

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Prince of Orleans :

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[Exeter]

Günther saw Nordids everywhere. He was clearly biased. He is not a reliable source generally speaking. His method of classifying people was even less refined than ours in Stirpes.

[Menydh]

This is quoted from wikipedia. My apologies, but I haven't found another source for it.

Nordicism has also been attributed to the reaction to an inferiority complex. Phillip Wayne Powell, in his book, Tree of Hate (1985), claimed that the Nordic Myth began to arise in 15th century Germany, when Germans resented the fact that Italians looked down on them as an inferior and unsophisticated people. In page 48, he states:

In the fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries, a powerful surge of German patriotism was stimulated by the distain of Italians for German cultural inferiority and barbarism, which lead to a counterattempt by German humanists to laud German qualities.

I will, however, purchase the book Tree of Hate as it contains other issues that are of my interest.

[Sergius]

One example of prejudice towards "southern" (I know, France...) Europeans: In Danish 70s television show Huset på Christianshavn (the Danish working-class version of Friends), in one episode a French gentleman visits the working class Copenhagen house where the show takes place. He is an Atlantid type wearing a very stylish suit, yet one inhabitant of the house refers to him as a "damn monkey." I think this must have been somewhere around 75 or 76.
Fictional, of course, but probably a pretty common view.

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

This is quoted from wikipedia. My apologies, but I haven't found another source for it.
I will, however, purchase the book Tree of Hate as it contains other issues that are of my interest.

It obviously is.It's the same thing nowadays with the negro Afro-centrism,they seem to see Negros everywhere,Egyptians,Greeks...Not that I compare Germans with Negros though.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

One example of prejudice towards "southern" (I know, France...) Europeans: In Danish 70s television show Huset på Christianshavn (the Danish working-class version of Friends), in one episode a French gentleman visits the working class Copenhagen house where the show takes place. He is an Atlantid type wearing a very stylish suit, yet one inhabitant of the house refers to him as a "damn monkey." I think this must have been somewhere around 75 or 76.
Fictional, of course, but probably a pretty common view.

I remember watching on the BBC a short spot which worked the other way round. Basically a French family showing a displeasant surprise at the manners of the Scandinavian girlfriend of their son, who he just introduced to them, and she was making comments about how they compared back at home.

While the French spot was much more stylish than the Danish that you mention (there are no insults or derogatory words), it was no less prejudiced in a south to north direction. If something, I would even argue that it was much more prejudiced, though in a classy fashion.

And well, did those prejudices ran at the time in France? I don't know, I can only guess so. What I can tell you for sure is that it is a prejudice that still exists today among more traditional societies of Southern Europe. It is just done with much discretion, in a non rude manner if you know what I mean.

[Señor Malo]

Hello boys, I'm back from a week trip from that wonderful town that is Madrid and where, I got the feeling , multiculturalism has not made much harm yet... I've another week vacation yet but found a little of spare time to conect here a few minutes

Originally Posted by Exeter

Günther saw Nordids everywhere. He was clearly biased. He is not a reliable source generally speaking. His method of classifying people was even less refined than ours in Stirpes.

It is true that the system here is refined as every classification is usually accompained by an argumentative comment

[Señor Malo]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

There is the same hoax about the "denordization" of France.

Count St. Germain; another nordic claimed by WN basing their claim on this "portrait"



this portrait was made by Charles Sindelar in 1935; this Charles sindelar was a kind "esoterist" who pretended have been Leonardo Da Vinci in other life and he claims that count St Germain appeared him under this physical appearence which is according to him the appearence he took as an "ascended master"

Now most contemporaries (among them, Madame Pompadour) described him as :
"His complexion was somewhat swarthy and his hair dark, though often powdered. He dressed simply,' usually in black, but his clothes were well fitting and of the best quality. His eyes possessed a great fascination and those who looked into them were profoundly influenced"

Most Holy Trinosophia: Part One: The Man Who Does Not Die

the amercian writer Chelsea Quinn Yarbro wrote a novel about this misterious character; an american white trazsh asked her:
Was Saint-Germain's appearance (dark hair, dark eyes) chosen specifically by you with the purpose of blending into as many cultures as possible?

She very clerverly replied him:

It was chosen because that's what the real man looked like.

[Vulgaris]

When The Romans conquered Cisalpine Gaul, They destroyed The Celtic settlements and Drove most of them back over the Alps after The Second Punic War. Then, Thousands of Italic Tribesmen and Roman colonists moved in and populated the Northern Italian area over several generations. When The Lombards came in, they moved into Southern Italy as much as anywhere else in Italy, and were eventually absorbed into the Italian population. Northern Italians are the exact same ethnic people as Southern Italians whether any of them wants to admit it or not.

Their desire to feel superior and aloof to Southern Italians is a delusion.

[Menydh]

That sounds as little credible as Günther's arguments.

Can you provide any sources?

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

And well, did those prejudices ran at the time in France? I don't know, I can only guess so. What I can tell you for sure is that it is a prejudice that still exists today among more traditional societies of Southern Europe. It is just done with much discretion, in a non rude manner if you know what I mean.

In France, a common stereotype about Scandinavians is that they would be much more "liberal" in their habits, especially concerning sexuality.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

This is quoted from wikipedia. My apologies, but I haven't found another source for it.
I will, however, purchase the book Tree of Hate as it contains other issues that are of my interest.

I would say that is probably more cultural than phenotype-related.

But is that what you mean with nordic/nordid, when you all say it? Is it phenotype? Or is it culture or geography?

One thing I dont understand is that many Germans do not fit the "Nordic" phenotype. I live in Scandinavia, and even in Denmark theres less blonds and Nordids than in Sweden, Norway and Finland. In Germany, theres even less. I would say most Germans are either intermediate between Southern Europe and Northern, or just darker than Northern Europeans.

Is "Nordicism" based on phenotype or culture or geography? I dont understand - people use the term blindly, and relate to "Nordics" both as a geographic or geocultural group, but also a phenotype, as if everyone in the perceived north are actually phenotypically Nordic or Nordid.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

In France, a common stereotype about Scandinavians is that they would be much more "liberal" in their habits, especially concerning sexuality.

And that with good reason.. all though many Scandinavians resent homosexuality etc, progressivism is more prevalent in Scandinavia than anywhere else, but its more on a political basis. Its like the higher class, the elite, at least politically, is embracing homosexuals, transvestites and gender-equalization, while the general population pretty much isnt.

[Taurin]

Originally Posted by Vulgaris

When The Romans conquered Cisalpine Gaul, They destroyed The Celtic settlements and Drove most of them back over the Alps after The Second Punic War. Then, Thousands of Italic Tribesmen and Roman colonists moved in and populated the Northern Italian area over several generations. When The Lombards came in, they moved into Southern Italy as much as anywhere else in Italy, and were eventually absorbed into the Italian population. Northern Italians are the exact same ethnic people as Southern Italians whether any of them wants to admit it or not.

Their desire to feel superior and aloof to Southern Italians is a delusion.

It would be truly wonderful to have some Roman legionnaire or centurion in one's own lineage. But even if we neglected what preceded those few Roman soldiers, colonists and landlords who come with the Punic Wars, then we would forget what happened in later history.

For instance, don't forget Norman invasions, which could explain your Nordic looks so different from our Alpino-Dinaric brachycephals.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Taurinorum

For instance, don't forget Norman invasions, which could explain your Nordic looks so different from our Alpino-Dinaric brachycephals.

I often hear that. But I dont buy it. Sure, it might explain some of it. But it is out of proportions to explain all of it with Norman invasions. I mean, we have to look at natural human variation, and we arent that genetically different afterall, so its logic that the same phenotypes sometimes occur in the different nations.