Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner
1. Abstractions are sometimes nothing but a way to hide contradictions in unnecessary complexity.
2. All European are Indo-European, IE people were our ancestors. Greeks are neither African, nor Semitic, not Mongol in origin but an IE people and so most likely were the Egyptians.
3. hm.. I thought you were the one who does not "believe in such crap"
4. I'm not a Nazi and I'm not so sure what you are... Questionable if you really an European. Maybe partly Jew or Semitic? And it is true that Jews, like all parasites, have a tendency to self destruction but this time it appears like the cancer has already spread through the whole body and that they, consciously or unconsciously, dragging the rest of the world down with them.
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1. "Yes, because like said Ludwig von Plato, the great IE-Nordid-Greek philosopher, blah-blah-blah..."
People like you that hide too much behind books don't have much grip on the real world, and are stuck in circular "logic" sometimes.
2. Not all Europeans are IE-speakers. Most of them are, though. But if you talk of blood, most of Europeans simply aren't IE, especially Westerners like me.
3. "Yes, because like said Dieter von Socrates, the great IE-Nordid-Greek philosopher, blah-blah-blah..."
4. No, you're not a Nazi. You claim IE origins of everything that is more evolved than the Stone Age, you call monotheism an "inferior semitic concept"... but you are not a Nutzi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waarnemer
This discussion is close to pointless, most of you do nothing more then oversimplifying Skeptikos standpoint and its not by saying something not to be true, like MR does, that it actually becomes falls. Everyone with a simple background on a philosophical timeline through western history knows for fact the disadvantage role of Christianity, and the reality is that Greek naturalist philosophy and even mythology was much more mature in nature, as was northern paganism, then Christianity that was brought to Europe by destruction, oppression, absolutism and the sword, speaking about a lose of nature!
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We all know what Christianism owes to Greek Logos. But talking of oversimplifying, isn't it what you did in your statement about the Christianization of Europe? That was a process that took centuries. Your post was basically an anti-Christian rant.
About Northern paganism, sorry, but we don't know much of it, as Northerners didn't wrote anything before Wulfila (who wasn't Germanic by any means, btw) translated the Bible in Gothic language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrippa
A. Thats not true if looking at the Greek tribes going in and spreading their language and ethnic identity, they were clearly Indoeuropean - yet alone the pantheon, values and social structure they had at beginning.
B. Of course there was a great influence from the pre-Greek/pre-Indoeuropean people of the region, but still what Greeks were, they wouldnt have been without the IE influence. We can't say how the local Eastern Mediterranean culture(s) would have developed without the Greeks, but for sure not exactly the same way.
C. The Protoindoeuropean people lived in Europe, that seems to be for sure now. We can speculate about certain Pre-Indoeuropean people which contributed to the Protoindoeuropean/Indoeuropean culture being farmers from lets say Anatolia, but first we have no proof for that and secondly the important developments and state before expansion being reached in Europe, probably with a fluent border into Western/Central Asia, but still primarily in Europe.
D. Actually the philosophers and many movements and people in Western Europe were much more like the ancient Greeks than the Greeks themselves in a certain period of time.
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A. I wasn't talking of ethnos, Agrippa, but of civilization, that is urban civilization. Of course, Ancient Greeks were IE-speakers.
B. The Greeks aren't pure IE, Greeks were the result of the fusion between IE and non-IE substratum and superstratum.
C. I agree with you on this point.
D. Ah ah, this is so true! Though only the
bourgeois of the wealthy city centers are idealized Greeks. The suburbians would be much more a mixture of Germanic, Scythian and Numidian barbarians.
Friday, May 2nd, 2008
Re: Western European civilization not connected to Ancient Greece
