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Default Slovenian Heraldry

The Coat of Arms of Historical Provinces in Slovenia



(Shown from the top down, and in rows from left to right)

Carantania

Carinthia, Styria, Austria

Carniola, Istria, Goerz

Trieste, Slovenian March, Cilli

Ortenburg, Pannonia, Schiavonia

Patriarch

In 595 AD, Slovenia (Sclauinia) or Carantania was already mentioned for the first time in historical records under the name "provincia Sclaborum". It was a dukedom that succeeded the ancient Noricum, a kingdom in the Eastern Alps, which traces back to the pre-Roman ages. Subsequently to this period it joined the Roman Empire, and had its first function as an associated kingdom and later as a province. In this way it was able to protect and conserve its native social structure in the sense of the ius gentium, which Romans recognised to friendly nations. After the decline of the Roman Empire, which followed the so-called barbarian occupation, Slovenia (Sclauinia, Carantania) established itself anew as an independent state.


In the records of the early Middle Ages this dukedom was documented most frequently under the name Carantania, from which the German name Kärnten for Carinthia derives (Koroška, in Slovenian). This very dukedom carried its own battle-sign already in the pre-armorial period. It was the panther figure, later the coat of arms showing a Black Panther on a silver (white) shield. (See the shield on top, and follow the shields from left to right).


In the 10th century, Carantania became a grand dukedom extending from Bohemia in the North to the Veneto region (Verona March) in Northern Italy. This grand dukedom was composed of the Central Duchy of Carinthia and the marches. The marches advanced gradually to dukedoms. The same transition took place in the Carantanian March in 1180, and in the Eastern March in 1156, and from then on they were called respectively Styria and Austria. Even in 1364 Carniola too became a duchy. Since 1335, Carinthia, Styria and Carniola formed Inner Austria, which had its fundamental base in the historical and political traditions of Carantania. Istria remained a march until it was finally annexed to the Republic of Venice. In 1500, when the Counts of Goerz became extinct, the province of Goerz was also joined with Inner Austria, whereas Trieste had already been linked to this state since 1382.


In the 10th century the lower part of Carniola formed a particular march called Slovenian March, that displayed the famous Slovenian Hat on its arms. This march became a part of Carniola. In 1436, the mighty Counts of Cilli (Celje) advanced to state princes, and the Cilli properties became an immediate part of the Kingdom. (Meaning: the Kingdom of the Eastern Franks, whose originality and historic legal status was built on Frankish roots, but who also sheltered Slavic dukedoms like Carantania and Bohemia.) However, the house became extinct in 1456. In 1418 the Counts of Cilli inherited the county of Ortenburg and its arms. This county was already an immediate part of the Kingdom since 1395.


In the 9th century AD the province of Pannonia (today's Western Hungary) also belonged to Carantania. The Slovenian speaking area of Pannonia was conserved only in the West between the Rivers Raba and Mura. In the dukedom of Friuli, ruled by the Patriarch of Aquileia and since 1420 belonging to the Republic of Venice, a Slovenian speaking area called Schiavonia received its own arms in the 18th century.


The ecclesiastic lord of the Slovenian territory was the Patriarch of Aquileia. At first, his coat of arms was equivalent with that of the archbishop. Later, during the Baroque age, it was depicted as a triple cross without a juridical norm, only for pure symmetrical reasons. In this feature the arms of the Patriarch has been preserved until today.


-------


Carantanian Heraldry


Carantanian coats of arms are in the grouping with the oldest roots in Europe.


Their symbols reflect the state traditions of Carantania (Slovenia), which later passed to Inner Austria. According to confirmed dates, Carantanian official heraldry began in the period after 1150 A.D. The symbols and images upon which it is based, however, are much older. The predecessors of coats of arms were battle signs, usually in the form of aggressive or cunning animals. They symbolized power, bravery and skill in the strategy of battle. Even today, such pre-heraldic battle signs can be recognized of some provinces, among them is also the Black Panther of Carantania.


At the beginning of the 20th century, the well-known Styrian heraldist A. Anthony von Siegenfeld, published detailed resarch concerning the panther. He determined that its origin was preheraldic. However, because his sympathies lay with the pan-Germanic movement in Europe, he extrapolated parts of this preheraldic history, assigning it to Bavaria. His opinions were considered authoritative for many years in the study of Austrian heraldry.


It is still the case that Austrian heraldry, like its historiography, does not recognise Carantania as a predecessor state to Austria and also to today Slovenia. It follows, therefore, that Carantanian heraldry has received little scholarly attention. For the above reason the question of the pre-heraldic and Carantanian origin of the Black Panther put on a silver shield has not been adequately explained. The figure has always been known as the 'Styrian' panther.[see left: i) STYRIA] The only logical reason for this, at least in recent times, is the fact that studies of Carantanian statehood have not been pursued.


Proof of the existence of panther battle sign is shown on the insignia from 1195 pertaining to Herrald von Wildon, Marshall of the Carantanian March (later Styria). It shows the panther on a pole [see left: e) WILDON].


The apparance of battle signs on the shields of rulers marks the beginning of the heraldic period. The first record of the figure of a panther on a shield appears on an insignia in 1160. This demonstrates that Carantania was among the first European nations to have their own coat of arms and also its own flag. The figure of the panther first appeared on a gonfalon in 1205. The panthers's colors were described for the first time by Wolfram von Eschenbach in »Parzival« around the year 1210, where he mentions the »sable (black) panther on an ermine shield« which is later a black panther on a silver (white) shield.


These Carantanian colours - black-white - were used in the coats of arms of families that occupied positions of prominence whithin the state administration and army already in the period of the Great Duchy of Carantania (952 - 1180) which comprised the territory of the Eastern Alps and Northern Italy between Vienna and Verona. The oldest families of Carantania (today Carinthia and Styria) used black and white coats of arms. Osterwitz, Liechtenstein, Stubenberg and others. In the March of Treviso, the Collalto family being Counts there in the Carantanian period already in about the year 1000, bore a black and white coat of arms. Similarly, the arms of the Colloredo family in Friuli and so on.


After the decline of the Carantanian dynasty, around 1270, the shield with the black panther was no longer used. This symbol remained only in the form of the white panther, still used in Styria to this day.


The domination of the Habsburg family over the Carantanian lands after 1335 brought with it a new name for the region, Inner Austria. The Carantanian heraldry passed over into the Austrian. A new heraldry used elements of both. The colours red and white were more in fashion then, and the bundle of so-called 'Austrian Peacock' feathers was favoured. However the banner with the figure of the panther was retained as the sign of ancient statehood.[see left: h) GORISKI] The origin of this symbol lies, as we have seen, in Carantania. It continued as an Austrian symbol until 1440 when Duke Frederic V was elected King, and later become Emperor Frederic III. From that time the Imperial symbols supplanted all others.


During the past centuries, several successful attempts have been made to cancel titles of the nobility that lived in the Carantanian territory. The last such move was made by Yugoslavian king Alexander in the 1920's when the only title retained was that of the Serbian royalty. Today it would not matter, but not too long ago the nobility represented the leadership of a nation -- and we all know that a leaderless nation can easily fall prey to another nation noble titles no longer matter. The historical record above, however is part of the total history of Slovenia and cannot be ignored by any government of the past and present.


-------
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say."

- "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Black Panther on a White Field




We learn from vexillology that the first flags, which appeared in Europe in the 11th century, were of one colour frequently bearing the national battle-sign in the middle.


In that period also Carantania had a flag like this, i.e., a black panther on a white cloth that later depicts the shield (coat of arms) of the Carantanian duke.


The origin of the panther is very ancient. The story originated in the 2nd century AD. The Greek writer Physiologus of Alexandria placed it into a collection which illustrated the events that were presented in the Gospel. Physiologus' book became part of the Bible, one of the best known and most translated ones in ancient times.


Physiologus wrote, that the panther was a great friend of all animals with the exception of the dragon (symbol of evil). Physiologus continued and explained how the panther slept in its den for three days (like Christ in the grave); then rose, howled and released from his mouth an immensely sweet scent, that lured all the animals to follow him so he could embrace them.



The panther therefore symbolized Christ and his resurrection as well as the spreading of the good word announced in the Gospel (the sweet scent), so that mankind should follow it.




The Roman stone (2nd century), which is still today immured above the entrance of the cathedral Gospa Sveta (Maria Saal) in Carinthia. It depicts two panthers that watched a tree of life growing from a cantharos.


For this very reason, the panther became the image of Carantania after the Christianization of the people. Evidence of this fact is the old Norican (Roman) stone with the relief of two panthers above the entrance of the old cathedral Maria in Solio (Gospa Sveta, Maria Saal) situated on a hill north of Klagenfurt/Celovec, in Carinthia (Carantania).




This mosaic is showing a black panther (2nd century AD), which was unearthed in Altinum (Altino), a Roman port in front of Venice. It bears witness that the panther figure was known already in the Roman period in the present-day Veneto (Venetia, which was a Roman province).


In the pre-armorial and even in the early period of heraldry (12th century) the national kingdoms and duchies in Europe, including Carantania, were presented by signs in the form of figures carried on poles as their ensigns. The traditional symbol of the panther figuratively corresponded with the mobilization of the Carantanian army against the then aggressive Hungarian kingdom in the eastern part of Carantania.




Signet of 1160 showing Ottocar III, Margrave of the Carantanian March (Styria). He holds a shield in which for the first time appears the figure of a panther.

Another signet of ca. 1195 belonging to Herrand I Wildon, the Marshall of Styria. It depicts the image of a plastic panther on a pole, as were the battle-signs in the pre-armorial period.

Duke of Carinthia, Bernard, on a signet of 1209. He holds a shield with the panther picture.

Leopold VI, Duke of Austria and Styria, on a signet of 1214, holding a shield and a banner with the panther picture.


Already in 1160, the sign of the panther appeared for the first time on the signet belonging to Ottocar III, the Margrave of the Carantanian March (later Styria). In 1163 the panther figure had been placed again on the signet belonging to the duke of Carinthia (Carantania). However, the Margrave of the Carantanian March had his borders lines next to Hungary and therefore became the call-up center for the whole Carantanian army. On the signet from around 1195, which belonged to Herrand I Wildon, the Marshal of the Carantanian March, there still appears the image of the panther's plastic figure on top of a pole.


When in 1180 the Carantanian March advanced to the dukedom called Styria, it conserved the shield with the panther. Its colours were described for the first time by the "Minnesaenger" Wolfram von Eschenbach in his "Parzival" (ca. 1210), where he mentioned the "sable panther on an ermine shield", which later was simply a black panther on a silver (white) shield.


In that period Styria belonged already to the Babenberg dukes of Austria. One of them could not tolerate, that the same coat of arms was used by both dukedoms Styria and Carinthia, and he requested that the Black Panther should be only recognized in Styria. However, the King's Court confirmed the rightful use of the Black Panther to Carinthia, which was the central province of Carantania and the elder dukedom. Then, Styria adopted a White Panther on a green shield, the so-called "Styrian" panther, which has been preserved until today.


In Carinthia the Black Panther had been conserved until the Carantanian dynasty became extinct in 1269. The symbolic colours black-white continued to exist for a long time in the coat of arms of the Carinthian as well as Styrian aristocracy. Perhaps the war-horse that was given to the new duke on the occasion of his installation at the Prince's Stone must have been of "white and black" colours (Ottacari Chronicon, ca. 1306).


Furthermore, it is interesting, that the Slovenian `Landwehr' (land-defense), already mentioned in the records of 1349, bore the name black guard (crna vojska, in Slovenian). This description was in use until the end of WW1.




The great signets (obverses) of Duke Rudolph IV the Founder (1359)

and of Archduke Frederic V (1438), who later was elected king and emperor.


In 1282 the Habsburg family obtained Austria, Styria and Carniola, and in 1335 also Carinthia. In 1359, Duke Rudolph, the Founder of this family, is represented on the averse side of a great signet belonging to the charter of Privilegium maius: He is sitting on a horseback holding a banner with the panther image in his right hand. The same banner is to be found on the great signet belonging to Duke Frederic V, in 1438. After he was elected King in 1440 and Emperor in 1452, the imperial insignia overlaid the ducal insignia. The ducal, or better said, the archducal insignia of Inner Austria (Carantania) fell into oblivion.




The panther figure on a bas-relief in stone above the portal of the doorway of St. Stephen's Cathedral in Vienna (14th century): Flames issue from the jaws, nose, and ears.


More on -- Crni Panter Grb Drzave Karantanije


-------
__________________
"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say."

- "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Coats of arms of Slovenian lands from year 1885...


Carniola


Coat of arms



Flag




Styria


Coat of arms



Flag




Carinthia


Coat of arms



Flag




Goriška


Coat of arms



Flag




Istra


Coat of arms



Flag




Coats of arms of Slovenian cities from year 1885


Kranj




Postojna




Novo mesto




Kamnik




Idrija




Ljubljana




Maribor




Ljutomer




Ptuj




Slovenska Bistrica




Celje




Celovec




Gorica




Koper




Izola




Piran




Trst




-------
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say."

- "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

-

First of all, thanks Stirpes for this new Heraldry & Genealogy sub-forum.

-

I'll continue with vexillology (study of flags) and the origin and history of Slovenian flag.

Today's Slovenia flag:



Unlike the popular theory, colors of Slovenia flag (red-blue-white) don't represent pan-Slavic ideas, but derive from coat of arms of Carniola region.



Carniola's flag (following the vexillological rules from 19th century - the color of charge down and color of field up, that's why the color is blue-white, they added red color, not to mistake Carniola's flag with flag of Bavaria),



This flag was also used by Slovenian nationalists and it was identified with whole Slovenian nation not just Carniola.

Flag of Glory (Zastava Slave),



Slovenian national flag with verse from what will later become our anthem - Naprej zastava Slave (Forward flag of glory) and mottoes Bog in Narod (God and Nation) and Zatrli nas niso spečih, ne bodo nas bedečih (roughly translates into 'they didn't destory us when we were sleeping, they won't destroy us now that we are awake').

When we got liberated, they decided to use Carniola's flag as a national flag, but the problem was, that colors are identical with Russian flag, so the solution was to put coat of arms on it, but this is against vexillological rules, because there should be no coat of arms on a flag.

Also, our coat of arms is completly against heraldrical rules, which is a shame for Slovenia, which as a central European country has a great heraldrical tradition.



^ It was designed by a person with no knowledge about heraldry and also doesn't represent our history.

This one of suggestions for new flag,



Another option is, to use the colors of ancient Slovenian state of Carantania. Unlike Carniola, which was just one of many Slovenian lands, Carantania covered all Slovenian lands and thus Carantanian colors represent whole Slovenian nation.



Black panther of Carantania



My suggestion for Slovenian flag
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say."

- "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Coats of arms of Slovenian lands made by Grbi in zastave - Heraldika d.o.o..

Carniola (Kranjska)



Regions of Carniola

Gorenjska



Notranjska



Bela krajina



Dolenjska



Carinthia (Koroška)



Styria (Štajerska)



Prekmurje



Istra

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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say."

- "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry



Well, i like this picture. It represents Nature, and to me it looks way better that the panther (are there any panthers living in Slovenia after all? ).
btw, since when panthers have horns?

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Following a trial of crimson spots that lead into the night
Suddenly I realize I see it all through real eyes
These crimson spots are dripping from my hand
And oh it makes me feel like a man


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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Gein View Post
Well, i like this picture. It represents Nature, and to me it looks way better that the panther (are there any panthers living in Slovenia after all? ).
1) It doesn't represent our history.

2) It doesn't follow the heraldrical rules.

Quote:
btw, since when panthers have horns?
They have them here.
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say."

- "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member
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Old Monday, April 9th, 2007
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panonski View Post
This one of suggestions for new flag,

This is not a good idea,because three-colour flags,with this kind of colour order,first emerged after the French burgoise revolution,like contemporary French,Italian and Belgian flag...

Karantanian panther is better!
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sektor View Post
This is not a good idea,because three-colour flags,with this kind of colour order,first emerged after the French burgoise revolution,like contemporary French,Italian and Belgian flag...

Karantanian panther is better!
Yes of course.

My favourite suggestion is of course this one:



Black & White, colors of Slovenia and Carantania.
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- "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member
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Old Monday, April 9th, 2007
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Alternative flag of Slovenia I did some time ago (for fun)


Of course it's totally amateur work.
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Old Monday, April 9th, 2007
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrinski View Post
Alternative flag of Slovenia I did some time ago (for fun)


Of course it's totally amateur work.
LOL, why green?

Many people outside Ljubljana wouldn't like this color because it's color of "žabari" (insult for people from Ljubljana) - color of Ljubljana is green and also of Olimpija football club. Styrians from Maribor especially can't stand this color, even though historical color of Styria is green-white.

Anyway, new picture of heraldicaly correct panther was made on one patriotic website here, you can see it in my signature. Actually it's simmilar to the one on your flag by dr. Šavli, Slovenian historian. It's based on Carantanian panther from 13th century coat of arms of Carantanian duke Urh III. Spanheim.



Panther posted in first post is basically Styrian panther from 16th century, just with different colors - instead of white panther on green field, we have black one on white background. This panther was first used by B&H Slovenia and later by 'Tukaj je Slovenia' (here is Slovenia) patriotic project.

Compare
http://www3.shrani.si/files/stajerskaq11s.gif and http://www3.shrani.si/files/panteren960092.jpg
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say."

- "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member
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Old Monday, April 9th, 2007
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Default Re: Slovenian Heraldry

Quote:
1) It doesn't represent our history.
Well, I guess it represents Slovenia itself, since Nature is an important part of every land country.

Quote:
2) It doesn't follow the heraldrical rules.
Who cares about the rules?
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Getting up from my easy chair looking for my wife
Following a trial of crimson spots that lead into the night
Suddenly I realize I see it all through real eyes
These crimson spots are dripping from my hand
And oh it makes me feel like a man