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Black Panther on a White Field ![]() We learn from vexillology that the first flags, which appeared in Europe in the 11th century, were of one colour frequently bearing the national battle-sign in the middle. In that period also Carantania had a flag like this, i.e., a black panther on a white cloth that later depicts the shield (coat of arms) of the Carantanian duke. The origin of the panther is very ancient. The story originated in the 2nd century AD. The Greek writer Physiologus of Alexandria placed it into a collection which illustrated the events that were presented in the Gospel. Physiologus' book became part of the Bible, one of the best known and most translated ones in ancient times. Physiologus wrote, that the panther was a great friend of all animals with the exception of the dragon (symbol of evil). Physiologus continued and explained how the panther slept in its den for three days (like Christ in the grave); then rose, howled and released from his mouth an immensely sweet scent, that lured all the animals to follow him so he could embrace them. The panther therefore symbolized Christ and his resurrection as well as the spreading of the good word announced in the Gospel (the sweet scent), so that mankind should follow it. ![]() The Roman stone (2nd century), which is still today immured above the entrance of the cathedral Gospa Sveta (Maria Saal) in Carinthia. It depicts two panthers that watched a tree of life growing from a cantharos. For this very reason, the panther became the image of Carantania after the Christianization of the people. Evidence of this fact is the old Norican (Roman) stone with the relief of two panthers above the entrance of the old cathedral Maria in Solio (Gospa Sveta, Maria Saal) situated on a hill north of Klagenfurt/Celovec, in Carinthia (Carantania). ![]() This mosaic is showing a black panther (2nd century AD), which was unearthed in Altinum (Altino), a Roman port in front of Venice. It bears witness that the panther figure was known already in the Roman period in the present-day Veneto (Venetia, which was a Roman province). In the pre-armorial and even in the early period of heraldry (12th century) the national kingdoms and duchies in Europe, including Carantania, were presented by signs in the form of figures carried on poles as their ensigns. The traditional symbol of the panther figuratively corresponded with the mobilization of the Carantanian army against the then aggressive Hungarian kingdom in the eastern part of Carantania. ![]() Signet of 1160 showing Ottocar III, Margrave of the Carantanian March (Styria). He holds a shield in which for the first time appears the figure of a panther. Another signet of ca. 1195 belonging to Herrand I Wildon, the Marshall of Styria. It depicts the image of a plastic panther on a pole, as were the battle-signs in the pre-armorial period. Duke of Carinthia, Bernard, on a signet of 1209. He holds a shield with the panther picture. Leopold VI, Duke of Austria and Styria, on a signet of 1214, holding a shield and a banner with the panther picture. Already in 1160, the sign of the panther appeared for the first time on the signet belonging to Ottocar III, the Margrave of the Carantanian March (later Styria). In 1163 the panther figure had been placed again on the signet belonging to the duke of Carinthia (Carantania). However, the Margrave of the Carantanian March had his borders lines next to Hungary and therefore became the call-up center for the whole Carantanian army. On the signet from around 1195, which belonged to Herrand I Wildon, the Marshal of the Carantanian March, there still appears the image of the panther's plastic figure on top of a pole. When in 1180 the Carantanian March advanced to the dukedom called Styria, it conserved the shield with the panther. Its colours were described for the first time by the "Minnesaenger" Wolfram von Eschenbach in his "Parzival" (ca. 1210), where he mentioned the "sable panther on an ermine shield", which later was simply a black panther on a silver (white) shield. In that period Styria belonged already to the Babenberg dukes of Austria. One of them could not tolerate, that the same coat of arms was used by both dukedoms Styria and Carinthia, and he requested that the Black Panther should be only recognized in Styria. However, the King's Court confirmed the rightful use of the Black Panther to Carinthia, which was the central province of Carantania and the elder dukedom. Then, Styria adopted a White Panther on a green shield, the so-called "Styrian" panther, which has been preserved until today. In Carinthia the Black Panther had been conserved until the Carantanian dynasty became extinct in 1269. The symbolic colours black-white continued to exist for a long time in the coat of arms of the Carinthian as well as Styrian aristocracy. Perhaps the war-horse that was given to the new duke on the occasion of his installation at the Prince's Stone must have been of "white and black" colours (Ottacari Chronicon, ca. 1306). Furthermore, it is interesting, that the Slovenian `Landwehr' (land-defense), already mentioned in the records of 1349, bore the name black guard (crna vojska, in Slovenian). This description was in use until the end of WW1. ![]() The great signets (obverses) of Duke Rudolph IV the Founder (1359) and of Archduke Frederic V (1438), who later was elected king and emperor. In 1282 the Habsburg family obtained Austria, Styria and Carniola, and in 1335 also Carinthia. In 1359, Duke Rudolph, the Founder of this family, is represented on the averse side of a great signet belonging to the charter of Privilegium maius: He is sitting on a horseback holding a banner with the panther image in his right hand. The same banner is to be found on the great signet belonging to Duke Frederic V, in 1438. After he was elected King in 1440 and Emperor in 1452, the imperial insignia overlaid the ducal insignia. The ducal, or better said, the archducal insignia of Inner Austria (Carantania) fell into oblivion. ![]() The panther figure on a bas-relief in stone above the portal of the doorway of St. Stephen's Cathedral in Vienna (14th century): Flames issue from the jaws, nose, and ears. More on -- Crni Panter Grb Drzave Karantanije -------
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say." - "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member |
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Coats of arms of Slovenian lands from year 1885...
Carniola Coat of arms ![]() Flag ![]() Styria Coat of arms ![]() Flag ![]() Carinthia Coat of arms ![]() Flag ![]() Goriška Coat of arms ![]() Flag ![]() Istra Coat of arms ![]() Flag ![]() Coats of arms of Slovenian cities from year 1885 Kranj ![]() Postojna ![]() Novo mesto ![]() Kamnik ![]() Idrija ![]() Ljubljana ![]() Maribor ![]() Ljutomer ![]() Ptuj ![]() Slovenska Bistrica ![]() Celje ![]() Celovec ![]() Gorica ![]() Koper ![]() Izola ![]() Piran ![]() Trst ![]() -------
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say." - "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member |
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First of all, thanks Stirpes for this new Heraldry & Genealogy sub-forum. - I'll continue with vexillology (study of flags) and the origin and history of Slovenian flag. Today's Slovenia flag: ![]() Unlike the popular theory, colors of Slovenia flag (red-blue-white) don't represent pan-Slavic ideas, but derive from coat of arms of Carniola region. ![]() Carniola's flag (following the vexillological rules from 19th century - the color of charge down and color of field up, that's why the color is blue-white, they added red color, not to mistake Carniola's flag with flag of Bavaria), ![]() This flag was also used by Slovenian nationalists and it was identified with whole Slovenian nation not just Carniola. Flag of Glory (Zastava Slave), ![]() Slovenian national flag with verse from what will later become our anthem - Naprej zastava Slave (Forward flag of glory) and mottoes Bog in Narod (God and Nation) and Zatrli nas niso spečih, ne bodo nas bedečih (roughly translates into 'they didn't destory us when we were sleeping, they won't destroy us now that we are awake'). When we got liberated, they decided to use Carniola's flag as a national flag, but the problem was, that colors are identical with Russian flag, so the solution was to put coat of arms on it, but this is against vexillological rules, because there should be no coat of arms on a flag. Also, our coat of arms is completly against heraldrical rules, which is a shame for Slovenia, which as a central European country has a great heraldrical tradition. ![]() ^ It was designed by a person with no knowledge about heraldry and also doesn't represent our history. This one of suggestions for new flag, ![]() Another option is, to use the colors of ancient Slovenian state of Carantania. Unlike Carniola, which was just one of many Slovenian lands, Carantania covered all Slovenian lands and thus Carantanian colors represent whole Slovenian nation. ![]() Black panther of Carantania ![]() My suggestion for Slovenian flag ![]()
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say." - "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member |
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Coats of arms of Slovenian lands made by Grbi in zastave - Heraldika d.o.o..
Carniola (Kranjska) ![]() Regions of Carniola Gorenjska ![]() Notranjska ![]() Bela krajina ![]() Dolenjska ![]() Carinthia (Koroška) ![]() Styria (Štajerska) ![]() Prekmurje ![]() Istra ![]()
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say." - "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member |
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![]() Well, i like this picture. It represents Nature, and to me it looks way better that the panther (are there any panthers living in Slovenia after all? ). btw, since when panthers have horns? ![]()
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Getting up from my easy chair looking for my wife Following a trial of crimson spots that lead into the night Suddenly I realize I see it all through real eyes These crimson spots are dripping from my hand And oh it makes me feel like a man |
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2) It doesn't follow the heraldrical rules. Quote:
![]()
__________________
"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say." - "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member |
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This is not a good idea,because three-colour flags,with this kind of colour order,first emerged after the French burgoise revolution,like contemporary French,Italian and Belgian flag...
Karantanian panther is better! |
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My favourite suggestion is of course this one: ![]() Black & White, colors of Slovenia and Carantania.
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say." - "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member |
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Many people outside Ljubljana wouldn't like this color because it's color of "žabari" (insult for people from Ljubljana) - color of Ljubljana is green and also of Olimpija football club. Styrians from Maribor especially can't stand this color, even though historical color of Styria is green-white. Anyway, new picture of heraldicaly correct panther was made on one patriotic website here, you can see it in my signature. Actually it's simmilar to the one on your flag by dr. Šavli, Slovenian historian. It's based on Carantanian panther from 13th century coat of arms of Carantanian duke Urh III. Spanheim. ![]() Panther posted in first post is basically Styrian panther from 16th century, just with different colors - instead of white panther on green field, we have black one on white background. This panther was first used by B&H Slovenia and later by 'Tukaj je Slovenia' (here is Slovenia) patriotic project. Compare http://www3.shrani.si/files/stajerskaq11s.gif and http://www3.shrani.si/files/panteren960092.jpg
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"The two-party-system and the artificial division between left and right is especially malign because it confines people into mental prisons, from which they are almost not able to get out. Even in a one-party-system it is mentally easier to be "in the opposition", "against the system". In the two-party-system (which is in fact one-party-system as well), on the other hand, if the left is currently in the office and you are opposed to the system, it is automatically assumed that you are a "rightist", ie. supporter of the party of the right. And vice versa. Most people refuse to see that the two major parties are in fact one and the same party. Thus the liberal democracy, especially in its venomous two-party variety, is the most successful system of totalitarian manipulation ever invented. Each of the two parties usually has a very dedicated voting herd, needless to say." - "Marcus Marulus", Stirpes forum member |
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Getting up from my easy chair looking for my wife Following a trial of crimson spots that lead into the night Suddenly I realize I see it all through real eyes These crimson spots are dripping from my hand And oh it makes me feel like a man |