The Redhand and the Salmon of Wisdom

[Miles hispaniae]

The Salmon of Wisdom
The salmon of wisdom is often associated with the legend of Finn. The symbol of the salmon is represented on the coat of arms and battle standards of these Irish and Scottish clans.

O'Neill's of Clannaboy, O'Donnelly's, MacKeown's, Machlachlan's. MacLean's of Duart, MacDonald's, McNeill’s of Gigha, MacLoughlin, Campbell's of Inverane, MacIntyre of Glenno & Delaney’s.

There is the Irish and Scottish legend of Finn and how he acquired the gift of prophecy from the salmon of wisdom.
Finn (Fionn mac Cumhaill) was cooking the magic salmon, for the one eye sun god Goll. Finn scalded his thumb by touching the salmon. When he put his thumb in his mouth, he acquired the wisdom of prophecy. Learning that Goll was his enemy he slays him with his own sword. Another story is Finn is the apprentice of the Druid Finneigeas, who has captured the salmon of wisdom and leaves Fionn to tend the fire as the fish cooks. When Fionn while roasting the salmon he burns his thumb. Sucking on the burnt thumb he steals the Druid's prize- the salmon's wisdom is acquired by Finn.




This story is close in resemblance to the Norse tale of the hero Sigurd.

Regin , the master-smith and tutor of Sigurd, reforged Odin's sword, Gram, for him. With the sword Sigurd slew the dragon Fafnir, brother of Regin. Sigurd begins to roast the dragon's heart for in order that Regin may eat it. Regin counted on cheating Sigurd. Since Sigurd did not know that who ever ate the heart of the dragon would have mastery over other men. While roasting the heart of the dragon Fafnir, Sigurd touched the heart and burnt his finger so severely that he thrust them into his mouth, tasting some of the dragon's blood. Immediately he was surprised to understand the language of the birds. He was told of Regin's treachery and slew him.

1. Regin is Sigurd's tutor, just as in the Irish versions the owner of the salmon is Finn's tutor.
2. In the Norse form, the dragon's heart takes the place of the Irish salmon.

This tales must have arrived in Ireland in ancient times a possible ancient Germanic or Scandinavian migration.






A coin dating to the 8th century with the symbol of a salmon and gally on it was found in Jutland.


The symbol of the Red hand

The Red hand always has been the symbol of the O'Neill's of Ulster not to be confused with the Ui Neill. The Red hand has been borne on the battle standards of the O'Neill's of Ulster . The battle cry of the O'Neill's of Ulster is Lamh dearg an Uachtar ' the Red hand uppermost' and also Lamh dearg Aboo ' the Red hand forever' . This was always a exclusive symbol of the O'Neill's of Ulster.
Legend has it that Heremon, son of Milesius , severed his right hand to obtain the lands of Ulster. Irish monk creation to eliminate the memory of the pagan gods of the Irish.

The resemblence among the Scandinavian and Germanic god Tyr and the god Nuadu, chief of the Tuatha De Dannan, who lost his hand in battle and it was replaced by a silver one so he could reign once again. Nuadu was also the one handed god of the sun. Tyr, the one handed Germanic god of battle and patron of the sword was also called 'the shining one'.
Tyr, was the symbol of concealment and the magic cup of invisibility, but also the rebirth of the sun god in Norse mythology.





Tyr , was the chief god of the ancient Germanic tribes the Suebi of southern Germany worshiped the god Tyr by the name Ziu.

“There is a god called Tyr. He is the boldest and most courageous, and has power over victory in battle; it is good for brave men to call upon him" - Magic of the Scandinavians.

Among the Anglo - Saxons, Tyr is referred as a star that " Keeps it's faith well with King’s, Princes, and Nobel’s, always in course through the dark of night, it never fails" The sailor's guiding star called “God’s Nail".

The Celtic Nuadu had a son named Labraid Lamhdhearg ' Labraid of the Red hand'.

Labraid Lamhdhearg in ancient Irish myths is this Labraid who was banished from Ireland and returned after thirty years of exile from ' beyond the sea'. And slew over thirty kings one Christmas Eve, and himself became king.
The Irish myths and legends have a few stories of Irishmen being banished abroad to always return. These stories seem to be the oral history of one tribe or man repeated among various places and made into different tales.

1. Labraid Loingsech
2. Tuathal Techtmar
3. Mug Nuadat
4. Lugaid Mal

Lugaid Mal, was banished from Ireland, and landed in the land of Alba, there he conquered that land and became ruler of the lands of Gaul to Scandinavia and from the Orkneys to Spain. Then returned to Ireland with a army of foreigners, landing in Ulster, and became king of Ireland and Tara.

Clans or individuals that have the symbol of the Red hand among the Irish and Scottish.

1. McKeogh /Kehoe
2. O'Donnelly
3. Shields
4. McKeown
5. Daly / O'Daly
6. Donnelly
7. McNeills of Gigha and Barra
8. Neelly
9. Fox
10. McLoughlin
11. Geoghegan
12. Magennis / McGuinness
13. Maynard of Wicklow
14. McAleevy
15. McAneany
16. McAnulty
17. Adair/ O'Dair
18. O'Reilly
19. MacAwley / Cawley
20. MacDougall
21. McBean
22. MacLean of Dochgarroch
23. O'Flaherty
24. McHugh
25. McAuley
26. O'Brennan
27. O'Byrne / Byrnes
28. McCartan
29. O'Cullen
30. MacDonlevy / Donlevy
31. McEnvoy
32. O'Hurley
33. Jennings
34. O'Mangan
35. O'Quinlan

[Delbáeth]

The Red Hand Of Ulster
by
Arthur McKeown

Many years ago two men wanted to be King of Ulster. But both could not be King.
One man was Dermot. He was tall and thin. He was a good runner and a very good horseman.
The other man was O’Neill. He was short and quite fat. He had a big black beard. He was a very good fighter. He too was a very good horseman.
For years they argued and argued about who was the best man to be King of Ulster.
‘‘My family has lived here for more than a thousand years. You’re the new people,’’ said Dermot. ‘‘It’s our land. I must be King.’’
‘‘No, that’s not right,’’ said O'Neill. ‘‘There are more people on my side. They want me to be King. It’s our land. I must be King.’’
This argument went on for years and years.
Sometimes their people had fights.
One year there was a fight in the north near Ballymena. More than twenty men on each side were killed in the battle.
The next year there was a fight in the south near Downpatrick. In the big battle more than fifty men on each side were killed.
In the third year there was a fight in the east near Bangor. This was the biggest battle; more than one hundred men were killed.
At last the High King of Ireland called Dermot and O’Neill to his castle.
‘‘This fighting can’t continue,’’ said the High King. ‘‘Ulster is a rich land. It has good farms. It is a good place to live. The fighting isn’t good for anyone. You must agree who is going to be King of Ulster.’’
‘‘What do we have to do?’’ asked Dermot and O’Neill.
‘‘You must stop arguing and agree to stop fighting. You must have a test to decide who is going to be King of Ulster,’’ said the High King.
‘‘Let’s have a fight,’’ said Dermot. ‘‘I’m the best fighter in Ulster. I’ll win and I’ll be King of Ulster.’’
‘‘No,’’ said O’Neill. ‘‘I don’t want to fight. I want to have a race. I’m the best runner in Ulster. I’ll win and I’ll be King of Ulster.’’
‘‘No,’’ said the High King of Ireland. ‘‘I don’t want you to fight. I don’t want you to have a race. You must have a test which is fair to both of you.’’
‘‘So what do you want us to do?’’ asked Dermot.
‘‘What sort of test can we have?" asked O'Neill. "We must decide who is going to be King of Ulster.’’
‘‘I want you to have a horse race,’’ said the High King of Ireland. ‘‘You are both good horsemen. A horse race will be a good test for you. The winner will become King of Ulster.’’
So the two men agreed to have a horse race to decide who was going to be the King of Ulster.
‘‘The race will begin at six o’clock tomorrow morning,’’ said the High King. ‘‘You will start here at my castle. Listen carefully. The winner will be the first man to put his hand on Ulster.’’
‘‘I’ll be the winner!’’ said Dermot. ‘‘I’m the best horseman. My hand will touch the land of Ulster first!’’
‘‘No!’’ said O’Neill. ‘‘I’ll be the winner! My horse is the best in Ireland. I’ll be in Ulster first!’’
‘‘The winner will be the first man to get to the river and put his hand on the land of Ulster,’’ said the High King. ‘‘Do you both agree to this test?’’
‘‘I agree,’’ said Dermot.
‘‘I also agree,’’ said O’Neill.
‘‘Good!’’ said the High King. ‘‘Come here to my castle at six o’clock tomorrow morning.’’
Early the next morning the two men got ready for the horse race.
Dermot had a big grey horse.
O’Neill had a big black horse with white spots.
‘‘Ready!’’ shouted the High King.
Dermot’s grey horse nodded his head, ready for the race.
‘‘Steady!’’ shouted the High King.
O’Neill’s horse snorted.
‘‘Go!’’ shouted the High King.
... and off the two horsemen raced!
The two horses and their riders raced away from the High King’s castle. The horses ran and ran, with their riders on their backs.
Dermot on his grey horse ran fast, and he shouted to make his horse run even faster. O’Neill and his horse ran fast, but in silence.
They raced north, away from the High King’s castle.
Lots of people came out from the villages to watch the race.
Sometimes Dermot was in the lead ... and sometimes O’Neill was in the lead.
At Drogheda O’Neill was leading on his black and white horse.
‘‘Who’s going to win?’’ asked the people as Dermot and O’Neill raced past on their horses. ‘‘O’Neill’s horse is winning - but Dermot’s horse is not so tired.’’
At Dundalk Dermot was in the lead on his grey horse.
‘‘Who is going to win?’’ asked the people from Dundalk as Dermot and O’Neill raced past them on their horses. ‘‘Dermot’s horse is winning - but it’s a very close race!’’
The two riders and their horses still had the hardest part of the race. They had to cross the high mountains into Ulster!
The two horsemen were equal as they started to climb the mountain road.
Both horses were snorting and panting as they raced up and up.
At last they reached the top of the hill. There was a narrow gap between two cliffs, with room for only one horse and rider. Dermot reached it first. He was in the lead.
Dermot’s horse was tired - but so was O’Neill’s. The race was very close.
Dermot was in front!
Then they raced down the hill. A minute later O’Neill was in front!
Every minute there was a change and a chance for the other horseman.
The horsemen were not racing for a silver cup or any prize like that. No, they were racing to decide who was going to be King of Ulster! Both riders thought about the great prize they could win. They both shouted loudly to make their horses run even faster.
Then the horsemen saw the river!
The last part of race was on!
The two men and their horses ran faster than ever!
Faster and faster raced the horses!
The two riders shouted louder and louder as they got closer and closer to the deep river!
Dermot got to the river first. He did not stop on the bank. His horse snorted loudly as it jumped into the cold water. The panting horse and its rider started swimming. The water in the river was cold and deep.
O’Neill had a different idea. He stopped and got off his horse. He stood on the bank of the river. He watched Dermot and his horse as they swam across the deep river. Had he lost the test?
O'Neill took his sword in his left hand. He closed his eyes. He lifted his sword high above his head.
He had one chance left!
He held out his right hand and with one great blow he cut it off! The bleeding hand fell to the ground. There was blood everywhere!
Then O’Neill bent down and lifted his bleeding hand high in the air. He ran to the bank and threw it across the river.
The bleeding hand flew through the air.
Which was going to arrive first - the bleeding hand or the panting horse with its tired rider?
Some of O'Neill’s men were standing on the Ulster side.
‘‘We win! We win!’’ they shouted as the bleeding hand of their leader landed on the bank of the river. ‘‘We win! Ulster is ours!’’
And so the story finishes.
Dermot and his men went to live far away in the west.
O'Neill became King of Ulster.
The flag of Ulster still has the Red Hand of O'Neill.

Source: Red Hand

[Miles hispaniae]

That is a modern Ulster (after 1600's) story not the original written by the ancients and found among the old text.

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Miles hispaniae

That is a modern Ulster (after 1600's) story not the original written by the ancients and found among the old text.

Indeed it is. But it was the first version of the legend told to me, and i'm quite fond of it.

[Miles hispaniae]

It's but it is a way for stories to become the new myths and the new generations forget the old Irish kings of Ulster.

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Miles hispaniae

It's but it is a way for stories to become the new myths and the new generations forget the old Irish kings of Ulster.

Translating Gaeilge stories, myths and legends into English will inevitably bring change to the content of the story, myth or legend.

If you want to stay true to the roots, then do so in the correct language.

[Miles hispaniae]

I think all myths should be translated to every language. I myself do not speak Gaelic most of the Annals in Ireland are written in Gaelic and Latin.

English is mostly used all over the world so i have no problem being in English . I would like to see all the Irish myths translated into Spanish and Portuguese.

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Miles hispaniae

I think all myths should be translated to every language.

I disagree. As no other langauge can do justice to the ancient stories, myths and legends of Ireland.

But then, not just Ireland. The stories, myths and legends of any people, can never be done justive unless they are in their true langauge.

I myself do not speak Gaelic most of the Annals in Ireland are written in Gaelic and Latin.

And so they should be preserved as such.

[Miles hispaniae]

Originally Posted by Delbáeth

Translating Gaeilge stories, myths and legends into English will inevitably bring change to the content of the story, myth or legend.

If you want to stay true to the roots, then do so in the correct language.

Originally Posted by Delbáeth

I disagree. As no other langauge can do justice to the ancient stories, myths and legends of Ireland.

But then, not just Ireland. The stories, myths and legends of any people, can never be done justive unless they are in their true langauge.



And so they should be preserved as such.

Yes , They should be preserved as such. But you fail to see that not all the Irish live in Ireland nor all speak Gaelic.

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Miles hispaniae

Yes , They should be preserved as such. But you fail to see that not all the Irish live in Ireland nor all speak Gaelic.

I understand that perfectly well.

But translating it into English is not going to help those Irishmen, and women rediscover their native tongue is it?

[Miles hispaniae]

language!? To a certain degree... just look at the Normans... It's what in your DNA is what matters.... Q? what is the basis of this forum..?

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Miles hispaniae

Your Toungue i believes means nothing! just look at the Normans... It's what in your DNA .... Q? what is the basis of this forum..?

Q. What is the basis of this forum?

A. Stirpes - Forum Rules

1. Stirpes is a board for European Nationalists. Nationalism revolves around the concept of ethnicity, not on any concept of races or sub-races. Ethnicity is based upon evolutive but non discontinued heridity of lineages (hence, stirpes) in terms of both blood (ius sanguinis) and soil (ius soli). (see addendum at the bottom)

While we admit discussion from other peoples even aliens to Europe, we do not welcome the introduction and the spread of agendas of primitivistic racism, be it in the form of egalitarianist racial or sub-racial supremacism, or of the alo egalitarianist promotion of ethnic disintegration through the support of multiculturalist and assimilationist pro-immigration policies in Europe.

A key word to look for when reading the above, is European Nationalists.

I for one, believe that the Irish langauge is an essential aspect of the Irish heritage, culture and ethnic identity and therefore preservation of the langauge is of the utmost importance. So to say the Irish tongue means nothing, is of course ludicrous.

[Miles hispaniae]

Originally Posted by Delbáeth

I understand that perfectly well.

But translating it into English is not going to help those Irishmen, and women rediscover their native tongue is it?

Originally Posted by Delbáeth

Q. What is the basis of this forum?

A. Stirpes - Forum Rules



A key word to look for when reading the above, is European Nationalists.

I for one, believe that the Irish langauge is an essential aspect of the Irish heritage, culture and ethnic identity and therefore preservation of the langauge is of the utmost importance. So to say the Irish tongue means nothing, is of course ludicrous.

Gaelic means alot i was what my ancestor spoke for many centuries before they left Ulster for the Netherlands then Spain. The Irish chiefs of many clans do no longer speak Gaelic althought their ancestry is Irish or Gaelic.

I am more into the genetics and genealogy. wrong forum... how do i get my account deleted from this forum?

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Miles hispaniae

Gaelic means alot

Of course it does.

i was what my ancestor spoke for many centuries before they left Ulster for the Netherlands then Spain.

Then don't you believe in the preservation of your ancesters langauge?

The Irish chiefs of many clans do no longer speak Gaelic althought their ancestry is Irish or Gaelic.

I don't place much importance on the clan chiefs these days.

How can i get my account deleted from this forum?

Accounts aren't normally deleted here. Just stop posting and don't come back. Slip quietly into the night.

May I ask why you no longer want to be a member?

If it is because of me, then I apologise for any misunderstandings.

[Miles hispaniae]

Originally Posted by Delbáeth

Of course it does.



Then don't you believe in the preservation of your ancesters langauge?



I don't place much importance on the clan chiefs these days.



Accounts aren't normally deleted here. Just stop posting and don't come back. Slip quietly into the night.

May I ask why you no longer want to be a member?

If it is because of me, then I apologise for any misunderstandings.

No not because of you i enjoy a good conversation... You can find various of my works on WFN forums, Clan Alba Forums, Wikipedia and other forums etc... and we can continue a discussion on those forums if you wish... Thank you for your conversation! Take Care

Lámh Dhearg Abu
Lamh Dhearg Eireann

[Llywarch Hen]

Originally Posted by Delbáeth

And so they should be preserved as such.

Hehe, y