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[symmakhos]

Originally Posted by Johannes de León

Not sure about the Saami flag.

The Saami "national" movement is a disgrace, being primarily a business enterprise concerned with receiving special economic grants and priviledges from its respective governments (Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish). The people who claim to be Sami and receive special "Sameby" privileges are often rich owners of raindeer herds, living in Stockholm, and having nothing whatever to do with any Sami culture (and certainly not speaking the language). However, if any self-confessed Sami nationalist or traditionalist would ever post here, and accept that ludicrous flag (invented in the 1980s or -90s) as a symbol of his heritage, why not? As a flagmaker I wouldn't make it a priority, though.

Lappland/Laponia is not Samiland, but a Swedish province. This is its heraldic symbol:

[Rusalka]

I'd like to see the Aquitaine flag too, as a big fan of Eleanor d'Aquitaine.



As for some of the others that may be of interest:

Many people I had met while in Languedoc defined themselves not as French but as Languedoc. So here's the Languedoc-Roussilion flag:



Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur:



Lorraine:



Alcase:




Considering their significance as Norman lands:

Basse-Normandie:



Haute-Normandie:

[Ederico]

Since the Italians did not speak up I have, as someone with Italian blood albeit not a Citizen of the Republic of Italy to provide some historic Italian flags. I'll restrict myself to the variants of the Tricolore:

[etoile noir]

Originally Posted by Ederico Figallo

Since the Italians did not speak up I have, as someone with Italian blood albeit not a Citizen of the Republic of Italy to provide some historic Italian flags. I'll restrict myself to the variants of the Tricolore:

ghaliex edric? u x'int taghmel hawn? hemm wahda taljana ave tghidx kemm hi sbehja. qalet jekk ma tigix int mux se taghmel aktar posts

ma nafx. sirt ma nifhem xejn jien .....

[Timo]

Originally Posted by etoile noir

ghaliex edric? u x'int taghmel hawn? hemm wahda taljana ave tghidx kemm hi sbehja. qalet jekk ma tigix int mux se taghmel aktar posts

ma nafx. sirt ma nifhem xejn jien .....

Wow. Hard to tell if that is a coherent language or not. Not to sound offensive or anything. It's just that looks to me like transliterated mongolian or something.

I can't make heads or tails of it. If one of you nice Maltese people gets time, could you please write up an introduction to Maltese (to go in this section: http://forum.stirpes.net/forumdisplay.php?f=137)? That would be fascinating.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Pseguash

I'd like to see the Aquitaine flag too, as a big fan of Eleanor d'Aquitaine.

Argh! Aquitania/Gasconia should stay under the same flag, that of Òc!

Many people I had met while in Languedoc defined themselves not as French but as Languedoc. So here's the Languedoc-Roussilion flag:

Grmph! The Lengadoc is Occitània. The Roselló is Catalonia. Languedoc-Roussilion is a made-up administrative province.

Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur:

Grrrh! And again, Provença is Occitània.

Gwen ha Du

Kernow:


Breizh:

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Argh! Aquitania/Gasconia should stay under the same flag, that of Òc!

Grmph! The Lengadoc is Occitània. The Roselló is Catalonia. Languedoc-Roussilion is a made-up administrative province.


Grrrh! And again, Provença is Occitània.

Okay, boss, don't get all mad at me. I took the flags from a website.

I only have information on Aquitaine's history around the early Middle Ages. I don't know if Gascoigne was a part of it at the time. I also know, that having been to Languedoc, people of the area don't (or didn't) consider themselves French and felt more affinity to the Catalans, for example. This was opened as a subject because we were continuing on the Barcelona from there.

Is the language Provencal the same as Occitane, then?

[Menydh]

What is commonly known as Occitan language is actually Lengadocian. Other Occitan languages are Provençal, Gascon, Auvernhat and Lemosin. They are the languages of Òc (Òc meaning "Yes"), as opposed to the language of Oil, like French.

Catalan language is an Ibero-Romance language largely influenced by the Occitan languages, to the point that many Linguists include it within the group of Gallo-Romance languages.

Until the [infamous] crossade against the heretic Albigensi, the Occitan counts were bound to the Kingdom of Aragon and to the Catalan Counties in various ways. The dinasty of Catalan-Aragonese kings was a dinasty of Catalan-Occitan kings. Much of the Conquest of Southern territories (New Catalonia, Valencia, ..) was carried out with Occitan people as well as Catalan and Aragonese.

King Pere II of Aragon and Catalonia died in the battle of Muret in 1213 defending his vassails, the Counts of Tolosa (Toulousse), Foish (Foix) and Comènges (?), and the Viscount of Carcassona (Carcassonne) and Besièrs (Béziers), against the Frankish army commanded by Simon de Montfort. That marked the end of the Occitània, where the troubadours, the courtesan love and the wandering knights were born.

His son, King Jaume I, conqueror of València and Mallorca, still held the title of Lord of Monpelhier. His duties in the Conquest of València and Mallorca force him to resign to his claims to the Lengadoc and Provença (the counts of Provença had been of Catalan lineage until that moment).


Still today there is a small valley in the Pyrenees which is under the Catalan autonomous administration (it has been swifting from Aragonese to Catalan administrations since medieval times), which is Occitan. There are three official languages there: Aranes (an Occitan, Gascon mountain subdialect), Catalan and Castilian. Strangely enough, most Aranese people prefer to use Aranese and Castilian, and rarely Catalan. Era Val d'Aran, together with era Val de Lushon (Luchon), belonged in old times to the County of Comenges.

Although they are under the administration of the Generalitat de Catalunya (the Catalan autonomous government), they have a sub-autonomous institution, the Conselh Generau dera Val d'Aran.

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by etoile noir

ghaliex edric? u x'int taghmel hawn? hemm wahda taljana ave tghidx kemm hi sbehja. qalet jekk ma tigix int mux se taghmel aktar posts

ma nafx. sirt ma nifhem xejn jien .....

Are you referring to Eleonora? I was informed of her, but I am somewhat taken at the moment, and I am not changing anytime soon, if everything goes according to plan.

Plus, I am taking a long-deserved break from AveMelita.com.

[Menydh]

Ederico, what Etoile wrote... is it Maltese or Rot13? I've seen Maltese words which are understandable.. not that though.

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Ederico, what Etoile wrote... is it Maltese or Rot13? I've seen Maltese words which are understandable.. not that though.

That is Maltese, but in that specific case it is overtly Semitic, a result of the Arab domination which stands. The vocabulary in Maltese varies from context to context. A modern Maltese dictionary would have around between 50-80% of Italian-derived vocabulary, which Etoile Noir did not use in her post since it was a simple personal post with no serious content.

Maltese is in its Semitic form is very limited and cannot be used for high-brow discussions for example (that would require the preponderant use of Italo-Maltese vocabulary), that is due to the fact that it was the linguistical result of the Arabic domination and it died or stopped evolving specifically when that domination ended at around 1090. The Semitic element somewhat received a boost with the British policies of De-Italianisation in Malta, which left their sour fruits and practically destroyed Malta's true Culture and Identity (check my signature, that states everything correctly).

Difference in Class and Intellect also correlate with differences in Language and Vocabulary in Malta, casting aside the pestilential use of the English Language by people that have neither National Dignity nor Nationalism in their Language usage, the Lower Ignorant Classes tend to use a more Semitic Maltese, while their Middle/Higher Class Educated opposites (excluding those that use English and sound horrid in general) use a more Italianised Maltese.

[Gil]

Any chance of a Survival Guide of Maltese and it's dialects, even that semitic one, being put here soon (by here I mean in the appropriate thread)?

Cheers

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Manji

Any chance of a Survival Guide of Maltese and it's dialects, even that semitic one, being put here soon (by here I mean in the appropriate thread)?

Cheers

I do not have such material, the language is very difficult, even for the Maltese themselves (at least in written form).

[Cristoforo]

Originally Posted by etoile noir

ghaliex edric? u x'int taghmel hawn? hemm wahda taljana ave tghidx kemm hi sbehja. qalet jekk ma tigix int mux se taghmel aktar posts

ma nafx. sirt ma nifhem xejn jien .....

Veru (true) ħelwa (sweet) dik (that) it-tfajla (the young lady).

As Edric said, most (ok, some 50/60%) of the maltese language is derived from italian however we do have a set of heavily used words which have a semitic origin.

For example the above paragraph would be written like this in Maltese:

"Bħalma qal Edric, ħafna (ok, xi 50/60%) mill-Malti ġej mit-Taljan imma għandna set ta' kliem li nużaw ħafna li għandhom oriġini semitika.".

[etoile noir]

Originally Posted by Ederico Figallo

That is Maltese, but in that specific case it is overtly Semitic, a result of the Arab domination which stands. The vocabulary in Maltese varies from context to context. A modern Maltese dictionary would have around between 50-80% of Italian-derived vocabulary, which Etoile Noir did not use in her post since it was a simple personal post with no serious content.

indeed it was a personal post. As to the content, serious or not, i was simply asking why Ederico was spending so much time here [looking up italian flags!] rather than on AveMelita.com. Apologies for writing in maltese, it was personal, and i wanted edric to know that his absence on Ave was felt.

Difference in Class and Intellect also correlate with differences in Language and Vocabulary in Malta, casting aside the pestilential use of the English Language by people that have neither National Dignity nor Nationalism in their Language usage, the Lower Ignorant Classes tend to use a more Semitic Maltese, while their Middle/Higher Class Educated opposites (excluding those that use English and sound horrid in general) use a more Italianised Maltese.

i will be the first to admit that my maltese is nowhere as correct as it should be, and is sadly lacking in grammar, syntax, spelling - practically everything really. whether this is due to my "Middle/Higher Class Education" or otherwise, as has been implied, i shall leave that up to you to decide whether i should be classed with "the great unwashed". I believe my posts speak for themselves.

However, unlike Ederico, Cristoforo and my other maltese friends, I received very little of my education in malta, and the little time i spent at school here, were the days when maltese was taught as a foreign language. I then moved to school in england and continued my education in italy. Maltese was never part of the syllabus!

Again i apologise for writing in maltese, and a badly written maltese to boot. however my intentions were good. it is indeed a shame that a post intended as an appeal to a friend had to be interpreted in this manner.

[etoile noir]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Ederico, what Etoile wrote... is it Maltese or Rot13? I've seen Maltese words which are understandable.. not that though.