Time Germany Learned to Love Itself

[Nerthus]

Time Germany Learned to Love Itself

It's been stuck in self-loathing for as long as anyone can remember, but apparently, Germany isn't half as disliked as it believes. In fact, it has one of the best images in the world.

The latest Pew Global Attitudes survey of some 17,000 people in the United States and 15 other countries from April 20 to May 31 found that Germany, France, Japan and China are far more popular than the US.

Full article

[Phlegethon]

Kiss me, I'm German!
Beat him, he's yankee!

[Carnyx]

the French (89 percent) : I know some of them. They are at least two here.

[Nerthus]

Der Elsasser posted something related to the topic in Germanische Gemeinschaft, some time ago:
Franco-German Friendship

Those Germans and French...

[Carnyx]

It happens we are the best friends, surprising.

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Duchemin

It happens we are the best friends, surprising.

Hey, I wonder who would have said this 65 years ago...
I also remember one survey in France and in Germany (in 2004) where the French and the Germans were asked with which country they wanted to have the closest relationships and 57% of the French spontaneously chose Germany while 58% of the Germans spontaneously chose France.

Also for French-speaking BM :

http://www.ipsos.fr/CanalIpsos/poll/7724.asp

http://www.tns-sofres.com/etudes/pol...eallemagne.htm

And we both hate the Americans.

[Carnyx]

Indeed that sounds good!

I don't know for you, but my grand parents wouldn't have say that, that's for sure. They weren't fond of Germans and refused to go to Germany. Note that I also know that Germans were very kind to french where one of my ancestors lived and they were not obliged to well behave with french. I understand my grand parents views though.
War remains War, and the war is over. No more mistrusts between our two peoples, it seems we are now like two pillars of the same house.

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Duchemin

I don't know for you, but my grand parents wouldn't have say that, that's for sure. They weren't fond of Germans and refused to go to Germany.

Well, my familial story is a bit more complicated actually. One of my grandfather's father fought in German army during WWI, and it is something hard to forget... His nationality changed 3 times during his life (1918, 1940, 1944), from Germany to France, France to Germany and finally Germany to France; then his son (my grandfather) was rather young during WWII but if it wasn't for 3 years he would have been a "Malgré-Nous" (Alsatians in German army at the Eastern front in 1942-45). As every Alsatian he had various and "paradoxical" sentiments about Germany, but definitely not a stupid anti-Germanism like you could see in France at the time.
As for my other grandfather, from the "French" side, he was very young during WWII and so he wasn't/isn't anti-German at all, rather anti-American (he was victim of Anglo-American bombardments over Normandy). Today he lives in Alsace as well and is like 89% of the French.

Originally Posted by Duchemin

No more mistrusts between our two peoples, it seems we are now like two pillars of the same house.

As I recently told a German friend of mine, those brotherwars just prevented us from conquering the world together; now we can do it.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Der Elsasser

Well, my familial story is a bit more complicated actually. One of my grandfather's father fought in German army during WWI, and it is something hard to forget... His nationality changed 3 times during his life (1918, 1940, 1944), from Germany to France, France to Germany and finally Germany to France; then his son (my grandfather) was rather young during WWII but if it wasn't for 3 years he would have been a "Malgré-Nous" (Alsatians in German army at the Eastern front in 1942-45). As every Alsatian he had various and "paradoxical" sentiments about Germany, but definitely not a stupid anti-Germanism like you could see in France at the time.

So he was an ennemy of my great grandfathers. How many urban legends concerning WWI german soldiers, huh? Their history is definitely more complicated indeed. Though my relatives suffered a lot during wwi too (near the line front).
Concerning Alsace, have you seen "Les Mathildes" (yeah I watch tv sometimes )? The history of Alsatian families from 1871 to 1945. Certainly biased and anti-germans, though it gives an idea of the complexity and absurdity of the situation (people who changed 3 times of nationality as your great grandfather f.e., crisis of identity, etc.).

As for my other grandfather, from the "French" side, he was very young during WWII and so he wasn't/isn't anti-German at all, rather anti-American (he was victim of Anglo-American bombardments over Normandy). Today he lives in Alsace as well and is like 89% of the French.

He's a good man.
My four grand parents had to suffer from anlo-american air raids and had to move from cities to the countryside. I was told the fear they had had when they had to flee in the middle of the night.
Though is there a monument to commemorate the death of thousands of innocent french killed by allied bombs?...

As I recently told a German friend of mine, those brotherwars just prevented us from conquering the world together; now we can do it.

Three wars to no purpose in 70 years it's more than enough imo. Be my guest.
Yes three, 1870-1871 was a massacre too, especially for French.
French : 2M soldiers, 156.000 +, 140.000 wounded
Germans : 1.494.000 soldiers, 44.000 +, 127.000 wounded

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Duchemin

So he was an ennemy of my great grandfathers.

He was also an enemy of one of my other grandfathers...

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Though my relatives suffered a lot during wwi too (near the line front).

Like whole North-Western France unfortunately... Were they under German occupation ?

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Concerning Alsace, have you seen "Les Mathildes" (yeah I watch tv sometimes )? The history of Alsatian families from 1871 to 1945. Certainly biased and anti-germans, though it gives an idea of the complexity and absurdity of the situation (people who changed 3 times of nationality as your great grandfather f.e., crisis of identity, etc.).

No, I didn't see this serie but I heard something about it from members of my family, and they told me it was quite good. There was also a book "Les Mathildes", I think I will read it.

Originally Posted by Duchemin

My four grand parents had to suffer from anlo-american air raids and had to move from cities to the countryside. I was told the fear they had had when they had to flee in the middle of the night.

Well, as I said it a part of my family lived in Caen at the time. More than 90% of this city was destroyed by the Anglo-American bombardments in 1944.

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Though is there a monument to commemorate the death of thousands of innocent french killed by allied bombs?...

You seem to forget that the Anglo-Americans bombed for democracy and freedom.

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Three wars to no purpose in 70 years it's more than enough imo. Be my guest.
Yes three, 1870-1871 was a massacre too, especially for French.
French : 2M soldiers, 156.000 +, 140.000 wounded
Germans : 1.494.000 soldiers, 44.000 +, 127.000 wounded

Indeed. Our two last wars just served non-European (USA, England) and communist interests.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Der Elsasser

He was also an enemy of one of my other grandfathers...

Totally absurd. You're lucky to be here today.

Like whole North-Western France unfortunately... Were they under German occupation ?

Well I don't think so, as they lived next to the front line their house was destroyed by bombardements and they left their village and moved elsewhere.

No, I didn't see this serie but I heard something about it from members of my family, and they told me it was quite good. There was also a book "Les Mathildes", I think I will read it.

Some of my relatives said me that it was pretty good indeed. A must be read book for an Alsatian, hey you're the most concerned.

Well, as I said it a part of my family lived in Caen at the time. More than 90% of this city was destroyed by the Anglo-American bombardments in 1944.

They destroyed our middle age cities, not to speak of human damages. A shame that we call them "liberators".

You seem to forget that the Anglo-Americans bombed for democracy and freedom.

Indeed... That is worth the sorrow.

[Prussian]

Indeed, here's to a long lasting french-german friendship, a mutually beneficial bond or better yet a noble idea that I've been rather fond of for some time now.

May the future bring forth it's further development & advancement in securing a long lasting legacy of coooperation impacting upon each respective nation & it's people.

[VlaemscheGermaan]

The Flemings suffered alot under the french.

[Carnyx]

Tell me which Europeans have not suffered? It's time to look forward and stop complaining about what happened hundreds years ago. It's up to us. As Brennus said : Vae victis.

[VlaemscheGermaan]

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Tell me which Europeans have not suffered? It's time to look forward and stop complaining about what happened hundreds years ago. It's up to us. As Brennus said : Vae victis.

We're still suffering under French Imperialism. Most of them don't respect language laws in Brussels and Vlaams Brabant. The french are the natural enemy of the Flemish.