This must be said!

[Nerthus]

This must be said!

Pictures: Feb. 13, 1945, Holocaust of Dresden. In one night the Allies murdered nearly 500.000 German civilians.



Why is everyone silent in view of ALL (and the emphasis is on ALL) Germans having lost it ALL by the end of WWII. Everything that every German owned and paid for, including insurance policies, saving accounts and investments were lost. Tens of thousands of valuable art treasures, of both, medium and high art, were turned into ashes by allied-fire-storms. What was not destroyed, was immediately confiscated by the victors and removed from Germany.
More than 50.000 patents were also "kindly" removed by the victors, giving them a 50-year technical and economical advantage over an exhausted Germany. After the war, every German had to start anew with only 40 Deutsch Marks as start-up money. 40 Deutsch Marks – not 40 million! They had to rebuilt their homes from the rubble and take on the burden of mortgages, when most of them had already paid for their original homes.
[...]

http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/history/mustsaid.htm

[Nerthus]

On the evening of February 13, 1945, an orgy of genocide and barbarism began against a defenseless German city, one of the greatest cultural centers of northern Europe. Within less than 14 hours not only was it reduced to flaming ruins, but an estimated one-third of its inhabitants, possibly as many as a half a million, had perished in what was the worst massacre of all time.

http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/history/dresden.htm

[Nerthus]

The war of "extermination" of the German people

On German TV (ARD-"Titel, Thesen, Temperamente", 17 Nov. 2002, 22:45h) German historian and author, Jörg Friedrich, called the bombing of the German cities during World War II "the slaughter of the Millennium". Mr. Friedrich is the author of "Der Brand - Die Bombardierung der deutschen Städte durch die Alliierten" (The Fire - The bombardment of the German Cities by the Allies). According to Mr. Friedrich more than 1000 German cities were bombarded and a large number of them were completely burned to the ground, people inside the conflagration were turned to ashes.


http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/history/extermination.htm

[Nerthus]

THE BLITZ. WHO REALLY STARTED IT?

IN MEMORY OF DRESDEN 14th FEBRUARY 1945. THE WORST SINGLE ATROCITY IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND – COURTESY OF BRITAIN AND AMERICA (AS ALWAYS)

http://globalfire.tv/nj/04en/history/theblitz.htm

[Strengthandhonour]

sickening..

funny part here is, the "Allies" fought so hard against something that they considered "Evil", yet they did it themselves. A bit of a contradiction.

[Gil]

Most people think that this:



was justified by this:



Keep in mind i'm not stating my opinion, just what the (dumb) general public thinks.

[Nerthus]

No, it was not justified IMO, it was cruelty beyond doubt and necessity.

Historian Jörg Friedrich: "Previously it appeared to me to be a just answer to the crimes of the Third Reich, but I've since changed my mind. Until the Second World War there was a common consensus that the massacre of civilian populations was illegal."

"The Air Ministry agreed that it was most useful to be able to use gas on less sophisticated enemies who would have no idea from where the danger they faced came. The use of gas was banned by the 1925 Geneva protocol." (The Daily Telegraph, January 3, 1997)

"Perhaps the next time round the way to do it will be to kill women, children and the civilian population." (Britain's war leader, quoted during the First World War)

"Germany is getting too strong. We must crush her" (Churchill, 1936)

In Dresden, thousands of incomplete burned bodies had to be publically cremated to avoid an epidemic. Others died as a result of suffocation. 80 % of the city or more was destoyed in one night. Families of numerous Germans never received any aid for their loved ones lost in this masacre.

Reverend Ludwig A. Fritsch said: "They [the allies] know, that the Germans must be angels and Saints to forget and to forgive all the injustices, atrocities and cruelties which they have suffered, twice in a generation, without any provocation, from the hands of the Allies. Just imagine what would we as Americans do if we would have been treated as we treat the Germans! Our cruelties would have no limits in revenging our sufferings!"

[Vitor]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

sickening..

funny part here is, the "Allies" fought so hard against something that they considered "Evil", yet they did it themselves. A bit of a contradiction.

I agree!

[Timo]

B. Mädchen, vergeude nicht deine Zeit. Die Scheißamis kümmern sich nicht um unsere Verstorbenen.

To them it is just collateral damage, something they "had to do" in order to win the war. They would do anything to justify it, and have. To them our fallen soldiers and people were evil Nazis that had to have been passified one way or another. They are the sick and demented ones, they are the mass murderers. So there is no hope telling this to Americans which believe their governments propaganda about the war. You can hammer them in the skull for hours on end, and yet it will do no good.

[Nerthus]

Ich bin der gleichen Meinung

Well the thread's purpose is remembering Dresden and not trying to justify allied war crimes, pointing out actions/mistakes of Hitler/Germany or trying to debate who was worse. One can hear babbling about how evil Hitler was almost anywhere at any time of the day - and I don't want this in my thread, thank you - but not of the Dresden bombing.

What has been gathered in here is not for the Anglo-Americans - and I don't expect those to understand it either - but for the Germans and those who sympathize with the Germans

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Aeternitas

Ich bin der gleichen Meinung

Well the thread's purpose is remembering Dresden and not trying to justify allied war crimes, pointing out actions/mistakes of Hitler/Germany or trying to debate who was worse. One can hear babbling about how evil Hitler was almost anywhere at any time of the day - and I don't want this in my thread, thank you - but not of the Dresden bombing.

Ok, it is just I seeing this thread and all, I am used to battling the yankees on this subject so I automatically assumed it was meant to persuade them, when that is so almost impossible to do. I understand then, your purpose behind the thread.

What has been gathered in here is not for the Anglo-Americans - and I don't expect those to understand it either - but for the Germans and those who sympathize with the Germans

Good. I like the truth to be shown, and know that not only Anglos and Yankees justify Dresden, but also other nationalities aswell. Be careful for them also. I almost wish there was a hell, so that those Ami and Brit bomber pilots and their commanders can burn in there forever for the fire-bombing of innocents like that. It is almost unthinkable that they could flatten as city with elderly, children, women and young lads for no good reason. It makes my stomach sick.

[Nerthus]

I don't know if anyone is familiar with this statement by Col. Ernest F. Fisher, (PhD Lt., 101 st Airborne Division, Senior Historian, United States Army):

"Starting in April 1945, the United States Army and the French Army casually annihilated one million [German] men, most of them in American camps . . . Eisenhower's hatred, passed through the lens of a compliant military bureaucracy, produced the horror of death camps unequalled by anything in American history . . . an enormous war crime."

I can say I hold respect for him just for acknowledging the faults of his people, unlike the majority of American historians that praise men like Churchill and Eisenhower. Germans may have committed crimes themselves, after all there is hardly any people that didn't shed blood throughout history, but to kill so many innocent beings and then not even have the common sense to admit it, not trying to aid their families in any way, while in change asking for war reparations from the victims themselves is a complete fraud.

[Nerthus]

The discussion about Guernica has been split and can be found here.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

It is hard to justify Dresden if you know the tactics involved. This fireball just didn't happen. Four or five waves of American and British bombers created, on purpose, this firestorm and then fed it. This process took a long time, not just one raid at night, it took many hours of bombings, appraisal, and repeated bombing.

My former partener's wifes parents were immigrating back from Hungary at the time where her father worked in the oilfields. On the way to Dresden, this girl, Beth, was born. They halted on the hills above Dresden and saw exactly what happened. Perhaps this birth saved all of their lives.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Manji

Most people think that this:

was justified by this:

With the war, food production was brought to a halt in many regions of Europe. Any government, not just the German, would feed its population and its soldiers first. You can't expect prisoners in concentration camps to be fed like if they were in a hotel. Thus, it is no surprise that pictures could be taken of people who were nearing starvation.

However, the picture has a shocking effect. The first (and surely only) thing you will notice is the man who is being carried by another and the foreground legs of the other man. But look at the prisoner who is carrying him or at the one behind.

And now look at these pictures of a British concentration camp in South Africa, during the Boer War:




The Brits left the wives and children of the Afrikaners to starve to death because they couldn't defeat the Boer Guerrilla. Read this account:

According to a British journalist, WT Stead, the concentration camps were nothing more than a cruel torture machine. He writes: "Every one of these children who died as a result of the halving of their rations, thereby exerting pressure onto their family still on the battle-field, was purposefully murdered. The system of half rations stands exposed and stark and unshamefully as a cold-blooded deed of state policy employed with the purpose of ensuring the surrender of people whom we were not able to defeat on the battlefield."

Needless to say, the Brits have never apologized for this. On a recent visit of the Queen of England to South Africa, not a word of sorrow or regret was heard from her despite the demands from the Afrikaner people.


Now, having said that, I don't believe in 'total revisionism'. As in nothing happened. I do believe, however, that things have been greatly magnified with the planned intention of obtaining a long-term profit. The figures given by the Red Cross right after the war vastly differ from those given by Holocaust propaganda. Vastly as in millions of difference.

Also, if you look at the XIVth-XVth centuries (and extended through the XVIth and even into the XVIIth centuries) events against Jews in Spain, I must say that Germany was pretty inefficient when compared to Spain.

One last word about Revisionism and Holocaust. Today, and after long centuries of having to bear with the Black Legend about Spain designed and promoted by England and the Jewry, historians are reviewing it chapter by chapter. These revisionist historians are known as Hispanists, and many British and Anglo-Americans are counted among them. However, it is much too late as the image of the evil Spaniard, the evil Inquisition, etc.. has been present in people for far too many generations. And you don't expect everyone to read those books.

So basically the Germans are suffering their own Black Legend called Holocaust.

[Bulair]

Terror bombing was the dumbest doctrine ever, after the war was over the allies realised that they hadn't acomplished anything with it.They didn't make the germans surrender and didn't drive the german industry to a halt.The sad thing is that they still won't admit it as a mistake.

Anyway, Sofia was also bombed heavily by Allied bombers in WW2 and last year the government even erected a monument to the brave pilots of the allied bombers who died in the sky above Sofia?WTF?!?These people killed innocent civilians and now they are being portrayed as heroes?What about the fighter pilots who died for their motherland?

[Rusalka]

Let us not forget the wonderful retaliation the American government came up with at the end of World War II; in response to the bombing of naval bases in Pearl Harbor (which I don't think was nice, but hey, at least it was a naval base) the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with A-bombs. It's not just Hiroshima, it's not just Nagasaki; and it certainly isn't the case that they didn't know how much destruction the bombs would cause; they knew it very well. Robert McNamara, years later was, shall we say, chatty enough to talk about it freely in the documentary 'Fog of War'. Probably because now he's in his 80s and was sure no harm would come to him. He even admitted to the fact that they had burnt down almost whole of Japan anyway and that they didn't need to use the A-bombs because Japan was sure to give up, but hey, they had all this research put into it and since Germany was defated before they finished the bomb there was only Japan left. The President was even insistent on bombing Germany "anyway", they had to change his mind, and re-direct him to less problematic solutions; hence Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Why isn't he and the remaining of his government tried by a group of Japanese people who are "expecting justice"? What's the difference between him and the "evil ex-Nazis" on whose heads new awards are put? They're about the same age as he, if not older, but they deserve to be put to trial and executed and no one from the American government during the WWII doesn't? Oh-kay...