Danish politician stakes claim to Swedish territory

[Gnist]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

Perhaps. Its true, though. The oldest Norse dialects originate in Denmark, and Dannebrog (flag of Denmark) is the oldest flag in the world still in use - so no other Nordic cross flag could possibly be anything else than plagiarism of Denmark.

I like Danes. But they are sometimes quite arrogant and rude to Swedes. One example is how many Danes I met switched to English or pretended not to understand what I said. I even had a few laughable experiences of Danes who pretended not to understand Danish, when I was fair enough to make use of what I have learnt in Denmark.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Seekers

I like Danes. But they are sometimes quite arrogant and rude to Swedes. One example is how many Danes I met switched to English or pretended not to understand what I said. I even had a few laughable experiences of Danes who pretended not to understand Danish, when I was fair enough to make use of what I have learnt in Denmark.

I know. I think its rooted in the conflicts and wars between Denmark and Sweden. Since that, we've always been kind of competitive, as nations. I suppose the way the Danish tackle this is self-confidence in our inherent superiority.

[Sergius]

It's Swedish now.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Faustas

It's Swedish now.

But the fact remains, it should be Danish. The very foundation of Denmark, including Scania, cannot be taken away. When a nation has conquered territory from another nation in times of war, it should give the occupied territories BACK in time of peace. If not, that is direct disrespect towards Denmark as a national entity, and its rightful territories.

But as is evident, its a lost cause, and today it isnt of significance any longer. Anyone from Scandinavia can migrate between the Scandinavian countries, and freely travel between them - the bridge is open. Pan-Scandinavianism is more and more a geopolitical reality, and not just an idea, as is pan-Europeanism.

[MisterSinister]

According to a poll by Aftonbladet about half of the people that voted would give Skåne to Denmark



Aftonbladet: Hälften vill ge bort Skåne

[Gnist]

Originally Posted by MisterSinister

According to a poll by Aftonbladet about half of the people that voted would give Skåne to Denmark



Aftonbladet: Hälften vill ge bort Skåne

This is just a web poll on their web site, for anyone who reads it.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Seekers

This is just a web poll on their web site, for anyone who reads it.

I dont think its entirely misrepresenting the population of Skåne, though. I know a lot there feel more Danish than Swedish.

But I still adhere to what I said in my last post.

[MisterSinister]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

I dont think its entirely misrepresenting the population of Skåne, though. I know a lot there feel more Danish than Swedish.

But I still adhere to what I said in my last post.

They like the thougth of buying cheap beer...

[Gnist]

I got the idea to have an elaborate argument with a Skåning and I am now sharing the outcome with suitable precaution.

I just discussed the article with a Skåning proper, who - I have earlier noticed - likes to call Skåne "Östdanmark" (Eastern Denmark), however in joking, judging both from the context in which he said it and from what he said about the particular article discussed here.

He said that the claims on what is now Swedish are a mere call for attention without substance, and that Denmark does not have a right to Skåne or any of the other territories.

Reasons raised in favour of this position was that Denmark was able to earn insane amounts of money on tolling passage to the Ostsee, and that she would have conquered Sweden altogether if only she could.

[LoKi]

Give it to Denmark!
I'm sure the rest of Sweden have nothing at all against loosing an agricultural place such as Skåne.

[Sergius]

The entire matter is a laughing stock. Until a Danish politician stakes claims to Danish territory, I won't be paying more attention to their talk.

[Marulus]

This thread looks a bit Balkanoid.

[Llywarch Hen]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

their legacy is documented by the significant quantity of Celtic art found in Denmark, specifically Jutland and Funen, and even mixtures of Norse and Celtic art.

Importation must be considered, as well as plunder. The fact that they wandered at large for so long and were so successful for that brief time would probably explain these treasures, given the amount of tribute that must have flowed to them, probably ending up as temple dedications or the like.

It seems the Germanophiles of the scientific world have simply censured anyone to suggest that Jutland, or Cimbria, which is considered the very coreland of Germanic peoples, might be originally Celtic or have a strong Celtic component. That very fact might be a potential linkage between Germanic and Celtic populations.

The way is open for you to look at such other sources of evidence like toponymy, hydronymy. Otherwise you're going to sound like some Celtophile crank, I'm afraid. There is something to what you're saying, don't get me wrong, but I fear you're exaggerating the significance of it.

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

I am not sure. One thing I know for a fact, is that all of Jutland was Cimbrian, and that the pure Jutes are ancestors of the Celtic Cimbri. All though a lot of people from Himmerland have a history of considering themselves more Cimbrian than in other regions (and Himmer may very well be from the same etymological root as Cimbri or Cimmerian), in reality the Cimbrians lived in all of Jutland, and they shouldnt be forgotten.

How can we be sure that there weren't also other tribes living on the Peninsula in those days?
As for the Cimbri, you should avoid any connection with the Kimmeroi. That would be quite indefensible.
I have read interesting speculations that link the name of the Cimbri with an Old Irish word, supposing that the name of the tribe meant something like the 'Slavers' or 'Slave-takers'. The scenario is comparable with European trading stations around the coastal regions of Guinea in the Seventeehtn Century, as Celtic adventurers and 'Seekers of Fortune' established a colony up there on Jutland to control the movement of natural resources from the regions - mostlly amber and slaves. That wouldn't make the area an intrinsically Celtic region but would be one way to rationalise your suspicions about Celtic involvement in the area.
Do you know of any different attempts to analyse the names Cimbri and Himmerland?
Regarding the Jutes and Danes themselves, isn't it widely thought that these moved into the peninsula from the islands to the east? The fact that 'Himmerland' refers to only a limited area of Jutland might seem to indicate that the remaining Cimbri were shoved aside by incomers?

But there still is a cultural and genetic legacy and ancestry of the Danes (or at least the Jutes) which is Celtic and not Germanic. The current linguistics of a population is indeed not an absolute cultural or ancestral determinant.

You should look for traces of this in folklore, if it exists at all.

Originally Posted by Delbáeth

Irish monks have been recorded on Iceland before the arrival of the Norse.

They can't have been very good monks, if they left any genetic imprint!
As I understand it, the Norsemen named some small islands of the southeast coast of Iceland after these Irish hermits. Vestmanrey or something similar.

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

A lot of the mtDNA lineage of Iceland is supposed to be Western (like Seekers mentioned). Which increases the likeliness of the Norse taking Irish wives-thesis.

It's guaranteed. Take a big strong man with an axe, give him the opportuntiy to tame an unspoilt wilderness in the far north away from any tyrants to interfere with his freedom, and give him access to the pick of the crop of Irish women of the day... What do you think he would do? :p