How far do you think the European Union should expand?

[Sifjar]

How far do you think the European Union should expand?

[Aptrgangr]

EU must disband, not expand.

[Strengthandhonour]

I don't think it should disband, but be re-evaluated and changed, sure.
Europe needs some sort of alliance if it expects a future where it won't be bullied around by bigger nations. An economic and military alliance. European nations won't be able to compete in the future as individual nations. I am in favor of this type of European Union, not the one we have right now tho. That does need to be burned to the ground.
As far as expansion, no where outside of Europe. Parts of Russia would be understandable. But Turkey,North Africa,Israel? forget it.

[Menydh]

I voted 'Russia'. But notice that I agree with Aptrgangr in that the E.U. should disband.

The E.U. is not Europe, and the fact that there is a possibility for Turkey to join the E.U. and that hints have been thrown for the expansion to the Middle East and Northern Africa, is one evidence that the E.U. is using the name of Europe as a label, but it is not Europe.

My view is that Europe should be built as a confederation alliance of free and sovereign nations, stretching from the Urals to the Columns of Hercules, based on strong principles of loyalty and mutual defense and trade interests.

Duly notice that the eurocrats supportive of a Turkey and Middle East/N. African expansion, are the same lot who oppose any approach to Russia.

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

I don't think it should disband, but be re-evaluated and changed, sure.

Once you have finished the process of evaluation, you will find that the structures are rotten and useless from the very foundations which are, not surprisingly, those of the masonic Pan-Europa of Coudenhove-Kalergi.

You cannot build anything healthy and solid, upon rotten structures and foundations.

[Gnist]

I agree with Aptrgangr and Mynydd that the EU is too corrupt to be changed in a favourable direction.

[Sifjar]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I voted 'Russia'. But notice that I agree with Aptrgangr in that the E.U. should disband.

But I would agree with '' Strenghthonour'' because we need alliance especially because US being the biggest hegemony in the economical '' Zone'' . I do not want to sound like someone from the ''SF'' but if you think about it EU'' is like the 4th ''Riche''. You're stronger being '' United '' as one.

Ahh I forgot to add maybe '' They'' want to de-throne ''Putin's POWER''

[Martín Zalacaín]

The EU is a parody of what an european union should be. They are laughing in our face.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

EU must disband, not expand.

I fully subscribe.

[Lagun]

What about Huntington´s propossal for "EU limits"?

Samuel Huntington's hypothesis that Western values are not of a universal nature. #1 They appeared in a given, West-European, Roman Catholic and Protestant zone, within which a specific cultural tradition has developed. The modernization of the rest of the world, namely of zones in which other types of civilization have taken place, be they Orthodox, Islamic or Japanese, may be possible, but Westernization is not. Elements such as the political culture of the West, individualism, or a work ethic that is specifically Catholic or Protestant, cannot be truly achieved within the limits of another civilization.
Huntington charts the limits of Western civilization in this sense. His border in Eastern Europe runs to the east of Finland and the Baltic states and it dissects White Russia, the Ukraine and Romania. Transylvania and the Banat are as much within Western civilization as the Voivodina and Croatia, but extra-Carpathian Romania remains outside, together with the Balkans and the rest of the Orthodox world. Thus, in Huntington's opinion, the ancient confines of the Holy Roman Empire and of the Habsburg domains, taken together with the limits of Roman Catholic and Protestant expansion in Eastern Europe, stabilize a limit for the eastern extension of the EU, furnishing a relevant criterion for the admission of new members

[bombadillo]

Originally Posted by Lagun

What about Huntington´s propossal for "EU limits"?

Who is an American quack scholar to tell Europeans what they can or cannot do? I agree with Aptrgangr that the Union as it presently stands is useless and too ossified to permit real reform but I resent these Americans telling us what we should do.

[Lagun]

Originally Posted by bombadillo

Who is an American quack scholar to tell Europeans what they can or cannot do? I agree with Aptrgangr that the Union as it presently stands is useless and too ossified to permit real reform but I resent these Americans telling us what we should do.

The point is that American policy is in favor of Europe absorbing Turkey, Bosnia, Albania...
Huntington, who I do not support particulary, is much more restrictive, as he believes that the limits to Europe are in the Orthodox countries. He does not considre them Europe.
My question is: is that a general feeling within the forum?
Is Transilvania more Europe than Romania? Is Croatia more Europe than Serbia? Should Greece, one of the cradles of Europe and rational thinking, be considered a European country nowdays?

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Lagun

The point is that American policy is in favor of Europe absorbing Turkey, Bosnia, Albania...
Huntington, who I do not support particulary, is much more restrictive, as he believes that the limits to Europe are in the Orthodox countries. He does not considre them Europe.
My question is: is that a general feeling within the forum?
Is Transilvania more Europe than Romania? Is Croatia more Europe than Serbia? Should Greece, one of the cradles of Europe and rational thinking, be considered a European country nowdays?

Oh man... I am not a supporter of Samuel Huntington's theories in any way but I have read him and what you have just said is an utter nonsense.

Huntington never said that Greece, Serbia or Romania were not Europe : actually he does not endorse the idea of a common European civilization and divides what we know as "Europe" between the "Western Catholico-Protestant civilization" (with its offshoots in Northern America and Oceania) and the "Eastern Orthodox civilization". What he describes in your first post is not the borders of Europe but the borders between the Western and the Eastern Orthodox civilization; and, in his opinion, to be effective the European Union should be restricted to Western Catholic & Protestant European countries - but that would not be an "European Union", rather a "West European Union".

[Lagun]

Originally Posted by Theobald

Huntington never said that Greece, Serbia or Romania were not Europe : actually he does not endorse the idea of a common European civilization and divides what we know as "Europe" between the "Western Catholico-Protestant civilization" (with its offshoots in Northern America and Oceania) and the "Eastern Orthodox civilization". What he describes in your first post is not the borders of Europe but the borders between the Western and the Eastern Orthodox civilization; and, in his opinion, to be effective the European Union should be restricted to Western Catholic & Protestant European countries - but that would not be an "European Union", rather a "West European Union".

I agree totally with what you have said about Huntinton´s theory.

My question is should we consider that Europe ends in the Catholic&Protestant countries?

I have used Huntington just as an excuse to introduce the concept of "two European blocks" within the continent.

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Lagun

My question is should we consider that Europe ends in the Catholic&Protestant countries?

No, of course no. Europe is a wider concept that includes both Catholico-Protestant and Orthodox countries.

Then we can discuss how this geographical and cultural area known as Europe should be politically organized; and I have to admit that supporters of stronger links between West European countries do have some points, but that's a wholly different thing. Nobody but ignorant Americans can deny the Europeanness of Greece, Serbia or Ukraine.

[Superstar]

Originally Posted by Theobald

Nobody but ignorant Americans can deny the Europeanness of Greece, Serbia or Ukraine.

Certain Americans and also a certain 'Lagun' it seems.

I always find it amusing when some people think they can decide which country is or isn't "European".

[Lagun]

Originally Posted by Superstar

Certain Americans and also a certain 'Lagun' it seems.

I always find it amusing when some people think they can decide which country is or isn't "European".

Do not take me wrong, my concept of Europe includes Russia, but I am just curius to know what other members of the forum think, as it is a fact that there is more of a "common spirit" within westerners.