Defining the eastern and western limits within Europe

[svin]

Baltic sea countries don't count, they are home for Baltids after all. I think the author of the thread wanted more "western" examples, to the west from Poland and from Finland (and even Sweden).

And how is Estonia western? Hmm... I think of Baltic countries as of north-eastern Europeans, not western.

[Eldritch]

Originally Posted by svin

Baltic sea countries don't count, they are home for Baltids after all. I think the author of the thread wanted more "western" examples, to the west from Poland and from Finland (and even Sweden).

Well, how about Germany then? To my understanding Baltids are quite common in northern and eastern Germany.

And how is Estonia western? Hmm... I think of Baltic countries as of north-eastern Europeans, not western.

That of course is a matter that can be debated endlessly, "Eastern" and "Western" being artificial categories. However as soon as the Estonians were liberated from the tyranny of the red disease, they have been (rightly and understandaby) very consistent and active in distancing themselves from their former Russian occupiers -- for example, by joining the NATO and the EU at earliest opportunity.

Estonians are a dignified, intelligent and hardworking people, and their only remaining block on the road to true freedom and prosperity is their enormous Homo Sovieticus Russian parasite class.

[svin]

To my understanding Baltids are quite common in northern and eastern Germany.

I think so too.

Estonians are a dignified, intelligent and hardworking people,

But is being hard working and intelligent enough to become Western European? I don't think so.

and their only remaining block on the road to true freedom and prosperity is their enormous Homo Sovieticus Russian parasite class.

Well, that's not only problem of Estonia but also of Russia.

[Tuurikerttu]

Originally Posted by Eldritch

Estonians are a dignified, intelligent and hardworking people

Well, hardworking mentality is not a "western European" trait but more like a trait of countries with Lutheran moral codes. Western Europe, in the way it's defined by geography, has mañana- and siesta culture

[svin]

Do you mean Siesta? Good work needs good rest.

[Breydel]

Originally Posted by Tuurikerttu

Well, hardworking mentality is not a "western European" trait but more like a trait of countries with Lutheran moral codes. Western Europe, in the way it's defined by geography, has mañana- and fiesta culture

must be the reason why we conquered the world

[Tuurikerttu]

Originally Posted by Waarnemer

must be the reason why we conquered the world

That can always be turned backwards as well, maybe it was the reason you lost it too?

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Eldritch

That of course is a matter that can be debated endlessly, "Eastern" and "Western" being artificial categories.

I think it was geographical in this sense.

Originally Posted by Tuurikerttu

Well, hardworking mentality is not a "western European" trait but more like a trait of countries with Lutheran moral codes. Western Europe, in the way it's defined by geography, has mañana- and fiesta culture

What do you mean by 'Western Europe', here ? It really seems like a Terra incognita for you.

[Tuurikerttu]

Originally Posted by Salaün

What do you mean by 'Western Europe', here ? It really seems like a Terra incognita for you.

What makes you think like that?

I have read the definitions of Western Europe at this forum - and it seems to be basically the Iberian peninsula and France.

Damn, I just realized I have typo on my previous post. I meant siesta of course

[Eldritch]

Originally Posted by Waarnemer

must be the reason why we conquered the world

More likely it's the reason you subsequently lost it, and the peoples you though you had conquered then turned around and conquered you.

[Eldritch]

Originally Posted by Salaün

I think it was geographical in this sense.

You thought wrong.

[Breydel]

Originally Posted by Tuurikerttu

I have read the definitions of Western Europe at this forum - and it seems to be basically the Iberian peninsula and France.

not correct, western europe on stirpes and for the UN for all i know, includes geographical the nations bordering the atlantic

Originally Posted by Eldritch

More likely it's the reason you subsequently lost it, and the peoples you though you had conquered then turned around and conquered you.

not really, the lose of the colonies differs obviously from a nation to another, but historically are the result of political atmospheres at a point in time. The mass migration today in western europe is the result of the humanistic and leftwing ideologies that follow the lines of may 68. And the west lost it actual political status in those nations, though culturally most of the globe is westernized, even till this day that is, before 1940 western europe was the center of the world on every level possible, today that center of political gravity belongs to the former western colonial territory, the united states.

[Leland Gaunt]

Estonians are a dignified, intelligent and hardworking people

What it has to do with anthropology? This is Physical Anthropology section and not Free speech. Finns and Estonians remain racially, anthropologically, phenotypically Eastern Europeans no matter if they like it or not.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Tuurikerttu

What makes you think like that?

I have read the definitions of Western Europe at this forum - and it seems to be basically the Iberian peninsula and France.

Of course, like Waarnemer said, I also consider the British Isles, Belgium, Germany, etc... to be Western Europe, even if more Northern than France and Iberia.

Originally Posted by Tuurikerttu

Damn, I just realized I have typo on my previous post. I meant siesta of course

Well, this is rather Mediterranean, not really 'Western', and it is just because of climate. People don't make siesta in Northern France, where the climate is oceanic.

Originally Posted by Eldritch

More likely it's the reason you subsequently lost it, and the peoples you though you had conquered then turned around and conquered you.

Then, how do you explain the presence of immigrants in Northern Europe ?

Originally Posted by Eldritch

You thought wrong.

I meant the sense Erbmasse gives of his question in the begining of the topic.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Leland Gaunt

What it has to do with anthropology? This is Physical Anthropology section and not Free speech. Finns and Estonians remain racially, anthropologically, phenotypically Eastern Europeans no matter if they like it or not.

Right, and in this sense, 'Western' and 'Eastern' are also geographical terms.

[Tuurikerttu]

Defining west and east also differs on which are the parameters. Considering that European continent is from Iberian peninsula to the Urals, the geographical centre of Europe is somewhere in western Ukraine.

Originally Posted by Leland Gaunt

What it has to do with anthropology? This is Physical Anthropology section and not Free speech. Finns and Estonians remain racially, anthropologically, phenotypically Eastern Europeans no matter if they like it or not.

One can split hairs with this one also. Perhaps here in north west-east division is somewhat futile. North is north, simple as that. I have not seen studies about measuring Estonian skulls, but according to studies made in Finland in 30's Finland appears to be one of the most Nordid countries in the world - with 11% pure Nordids (meaning being dolichocephalic, blonde and light eyes - so very strict standards), about 15% pure East-Baltids (pre-WW2 typology, Hindenburgh-like) and rest more or less a mix of the 2 (and borealized forms of the latter). Not many countries as a whole scores this.

Both Finland and Estonia racially quite different from the Eastern Europe as I see it - Slavic (Balkans is a border case) and Hungarian speaking part of Europe, since to me the Eastern look has Pontid and/or Dinarization involved, and both are pretty rare in Finnish and Estonian populations.

However, I prefer to use the cultural and historical divisions. Finland is Northern, this is the primary definition. Secondly, most certainly within the western range.

But I'm quite sure I will be unable to turn anyones head with this post so