How do you see your Nation, ideally ?

[Menydh]

The discussion between Caesar Princpes and Sohni has been split and moved to: http://forum.stirpes.net/camera-obscura/11862-caesar-princeps-vs-sohni-imperialism-vs-anti-imperialism.html

The discussion with Saxonian Knight should be split too and moved to a thread of its own, at some point. Ideas for a new thread name for the split are welcome.

[Thief of always]

35 per cent of the Ukrainians and 25 per cent of the Byelorussians

That's strange. I think Belorussians are phenotypically more Nordic than Ukrainians.

The Russian nation, he said, was a young one

?

To mods, please, move this post to "You ideal blah blah" thread. Im messud up, thanks.

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Caesar Princeps

As for borders:
from France: Corsica (autonomous), Terra Brigasca, Mentonasca and Monaco (Liguria);
to France: Occitan and Arpitan valleys of Piemonte, Valle d'Aosta;
from Switzerland: Canton Ticino, Italian Grigioni (Insubria, Romansh Grigioni (to Friuli, other Rhaetian speakers)

Corsica ? Yeah, take it, please ! Do you want Guadeloupe and Martinique as well ?

Originally Posted by Caesar Princeps

All other migrants will be likewise expelled, while Italian migrants will be recalled back from other European nations (France, Switzerland, Germany Belgium, England), where they should be expelled

I agree very much with this statement, theoretically speaking. But practically, in France, a country where about 3-4 million people of (part or full) Italian descent are living, where Italian immigration started in the first half of the 19th century, how do you distinguish an ethnic Italian from an ethnic French ?
What about half-French half-Italian people ? What about people who have only one Italian grandparent ? What about fully integrated ethnic Italians ? What about ethnic French with only one Italian great-grandparent but who supported the Italian team in 2006, singing "Fratelli d'Italia" ?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

The discussion between Caesar Princpes and Sohni has been split and moved to: [url]http://forum.stirpes.net/camera-obscura/11862-caesar-princeps-vs-sohni-imperialism-vs-anti-imperialism.html[/url]

I had to re-merge the split posts and re-split them to leave on this thread C.P.'s first post which was legal. Not that everyone will agree with him, and in fact I preview that there might be yet another split if Breha sees it.. but still it is his opinion. The new thread with the rest of the posts is now in: http://forum.stirpes.net/camera-obsc...perialism.html

The discussion with Saxonian Knight should be split too and moved to a thread of its own, at some point. Ideas for a new thread name for the split are welcome.

[Caesar Princeps]

Originally Posted by Theobald

Corsica ? Yeah, take it, please ! Do you want Guadeloupe and Martinique as well ?

So let me understand. You want to give us Corsica, but we must also take along with it two Caribbean islands full of Blacks and cotton?
Ehm, you know it is ok for Corsica, but the latters...
try giving them to UK. They will accept everything

[Caesar Princeps]

Originally Posted by Theobald

I agree very much with this statement, theoretically speaking. But practically, in France, a country where about 3-4 million people of (part or full) Italian descent are living, where Italian immigration started in the first half of the 19th century, how do you distinguish an ethnic Italian from an ethnic French ?
What about half-French half-Italian people ? What about people who have only one Italian grandparent ? What about fully integrated ethnic Italians ? What about ethnic French with only one Italian great-grandparent but who supported the Italian team in 2006, singing "Fratelli d'Italia" ?

I know. It is not easy. Those who are less assimilated should return to Italy, while those who are most assimilated, I think they could be easily assimilated completely in French nation. The same can be said for Iberian migrants. Same religion, quite same racial sets, language can be acquired. What do you think?
In German speaking countries, it is different, but here Italians are less numerous and less assimilated.

P.S. I don't wonder. Your was not a French national team (apart for Sagnol, Blanc, Barthez).

[dime]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

This isn't my nation but this is what I think will happen to FYROM:

What is that supposed to mean ?

By the way include Pirin and Egej, thats kind of how I see my nation.
except called Makedonija

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

You should know what this tells about nationalism.. zero.

Hispanismo, 10

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Rather, the first map represents the draining of resources of the nation of Spain to maintain the dinastic rights of a monarchy.

Marxist exegesis?

[Ferran]

Erasmus, I find amazing how you tend to post interesting articles and books, but on the other hand, when it comes to give your personal opinion on certain issues, you also tend to "meter la pata" in a serious way, maybe just partially in the content, but entirely in the style (some might remember the unfortunate discussion in which you called Carnyx everything but beautiful just for not being a religious devotee).

I don't think I have to give you lessons on behaviour, as you are grown enough. What I can do, however, is reminding you that Stirpes is a place for nationalists from Europe, which fortunately (or maybe not) favours the membership of a reduced number New Worlders whose heart and soul still belongs to Europe (many of them having in mind to come back) as long as they are respectful. And as it happens with any forum dealing with Europe, it's not rare that you will find threads on the issue of the borders between European nations, for what it's needed that you define just yours (in case you identify with one of the old continent). In that context, nothing would be more out of place here than maps about past multinational/continental empires or others equating nation with religion. I hope you can understand that.

Anyway, for that kind of maps, you (and any other interested on it) have a more suitable thread here:

Expansionist maps

Edit: Another mod has deleted some of your "comments", if you have any objection feel free to say so.

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by Ferran

Erasmus, I find amazing how you tend to post interesting articles and books, but on the other hand, when it comes to give your personal opinion on certain issues, you also tend to "meter la pata" in a serious way, maybe just partially in the content, but entirely in the style (some might remember the unfortunate discussion in which you called Carnyx everything but beautiful just for not being a religious devotee).

Come on, brother!, it was a discussion between friends, Carnyx is one of the my favourite posters, don't be more sensitive than Monsieur Ironique

Originally Posted by Ferran

I don't think I have to give you lessons on behaviour, as you are grown enough. What I can do, however, is reminding you that Stirpes is a place for nationalists from Europe, which fortunately (or maybe not) favours the membership of a reduced number New Worlders whose heart and soul still belongs to Europe (many of them having in mind to come back) as long as they are respectful.

I'm not a Yankee Spain had no "colonials" or "kelpers", ok?

Originally Posted by Ferran

And as it happens with any forum dealing with Europe, it's not rare that you will find threads on the issue of the borders between European nations, for what it's needed that you define just yours (in case you identify with one of the old continent). In that context, nothing would be more out of place here than maps about past multinational/continental empires or others equating nation with religion. I hope you can understand that.

Anyway, for that kind of maps, you (and any other interested on it) have a more suitable thread here:

Expansionist maps

Nothing would be more out of place to compare the glorious Spanish Empire with these stupid fantasies

Originally Posted by Ferran

Edit: Another mod has deleted some of your "comments", if you have any objection feel free to say so.

I said Aeternitas has a distorted vision on Latinamerica and I was censored Nothing more.

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by Erasmus

Come on, brother!, it was a discussion between friends, Carnyx is one of the my favourite posters, don't be more sensitive than Monsieur Ironique

Well, I don't doubt your relationship with him might be excellent, but I'm not the only one who saw this post as having little to do here, even though I could have also chosen another one hadn't been because it was the most recent reference of an unfortunate post of yours I had in mind. Anyway, what I want to tell you with that is that there are much nicer and -by extension- fruitful ways to exhibit an idea... wheter such idea is right, wrong or in between.

I'm not a Yankee Spain had no "colonials" or "kelpers", ok?

Yes I know, Spain always had viceroyalties, and it's from the times the Bourbons imported the Protestant term "colonies" to refer to them, plus the incorporation of unrespectful (and alien) methods to administrate these, that they began to think in independence, as they saw with contempt how they passed to be second class citizens from one century to another. Although it would be also unfair not to mention the big influence Freemasonry had on these "liberation" movements (as you can see in many of the South American flags), which just wanted to exploit the situation to their benefit and of course in detriment of others. On "yankeeness", I would never call that way a South American, not even to someone from Texas.

Nothing would be more out of place to compare the glorious Spanish Empire with these stupid fantasies

I'm not comparing, I'm just saying that all these maps are equally off-topic in this thread.

I said Aeternitas has a distorted vision on Latinamerica and I was censored Nothing more.

If you think again on what you wrote you will realize why the moderator in question deleted your post. In any case, what's the only non-apocryphal vision on Latin America? The vision of "pan-whatevers" regarding Catholic Amerindians who speak Castilian as Spanish as Isabella of Castile? Who knows if the next would be a discussion about wheter Chichén Itzá is a good example of Spanish architecture or not. Or better, someone thinking in moving the Monastery of Montserrat to the Machu Picchu for its symbolism as an unifying factor. I'm of course not implying that you belong to some of these groups, just taking some examples of the kind of conclusions some opinions can lead to.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Caesar Princeps

So let me understand. You want to give us Corsica, but we must also take along with it two Caribbean islands full of Blacks and cotton?
Ehm, you know it is ok for Corsica, but the latters...
try giving them to UK. They will accept everything

no give them to cuba. that will really anger americans.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by dime

What is that supposed to mean ?

By the way include Pirin and Egej, thats kind of how I see my nation.
except called Makedonija

How do you expect to have Macedonia (Greek Macedonia) part of FYROM. There are virtually no Slavs their and if there are they're usually Slavophone Greeks or guest workers from Eastern Europe not only that I see no way how a poor underdeveloped nation would incorporate the Greek province of Macedonia especially given that it is very wealthy compared to FYROM (even though like msot of Greece it is not heavily developed), has a larger population, oh and why would it want to add 500,000+ more Shiqptars to it's population.

[TiCon]

To Mynydd:

I would like to point out some issues.

First of all; this threat is all about how one sees his nation ideally. Well, I pointed it out how I see this. Ofcourse some might be offened, but, why you think I might become hostile? Iam not like that. I pointed it out, it is my ideal. I know very well, that it is now just like an utopia, but I never said that I support genocide on the people now living there, and that is not an subject of debating aswell. If Russians or Poles have their ideally nation, by all means, I ask them to speak out. When a Finnic nationalist claims Karelia from the Russians, that does not make him hostile. Neither when an Estonian or Latvian demands action concerning the Russian minority within their borders. When Flemish claims Brussels and French-Flanders that does not make them hostile. Everyone has in life his ideals, but not does not mean they should be silent or banned, because others disagre. On other forums, like Skadi and Phora, I experiened hostile behaviour from especially Russian and Serbian members. For issues like Königsberg with Russians and with Serbs because I support Croats in generall. And Aistulf and I are not what you can say friends. He accused me of lies, says Iam a Croat, because he can not believe that a Dutchman prefer Croats over Serbs, and because I do not accept the theory Serbs are spreading around that Croats are Avars.. On Phora and Skadi I received many personal insults and even a few deaththreads by some Russians and Serbs. The reason that I post there lesser in the international sections. Not that Iam afraid for them, but I dont need this kind of crap. Forums are for discussions, not for insults and deaththreads.

I respect everyones opinion, but I think it should be open here for opinions others might not like. If a Pole around here would claim Berlin as his, fine, I disagree, but yet, we can keep it friendly. But I find it a bit dissapointed that you might think I can bring hostillity.