North/South genetic divide in Europe

[Polak]

Interesting new study based on powerful genome-wide SNP markers.
European Population Substructure: Clustering of Northern
and Southern Populations
PROVISIONAL ABSTRACT
The development of methodologies for defining population genetic structure has provided the ability to identify the major ethnic contributions in individual subjects in diverse populations. Using a genome-wide SNP panel we observe population structure in a diverse group of Europeans and European Americans. Under a variety of conditions and tests there is a consistent and reproducible distinction between "northern" and "southern" European population groups: most individual subjects with southern European ancestry (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Greek) have >85% membership in the "south" population; and most northern, western, eastern and central Europeans have >90% in the "north" population group. Ashkenazi Jewish as well as Sephardic Jewish origin also showed >85% membership in the "south" population consistent with a later Mediterranean origin of these ethnic groups. Based on this work, we have developed a core set of informative SNP markers that can control for this partition in European population structure in a variety of clinical and genetic studies.

http://genetics.plosjournals.org/per...020143.eor.pdf

[Menydh]

I find this interesting:

Trends in both the Italian and Spanish subjects were also consistent with this north/south pattern: 10/32 subjects from Northern Italy had greater than a 10% Northern component compared with 2/28 from Southern Italy; and 23/43 from Northern Spain had greater than a 10% Northern contribution compared to 5/19 from Southern Spain.

This produces the following percentages of more than 10% Northern European admixture in Southern Europe:

Southern Italy = 7.14%
Southern Spain = 26.3%
Northern Italy = 31.25%
Northern Spain = 53.49%

Which calls for a revision of any alleged claims of significant Northern European element in Northern Italy.

Another thing that these studies always fail to produce is data for regions like Austria, Baden and Bavaria, as well as for regional data in France.


In any case, it is interesting to see that Poles cluster together with Germans. A call to an end for fraternal tribalistic infights?
(it also points to a significant increase of the overall northern immigrant element in countries like Spain or Italy).

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

This produces the following percentages of more than 10% Northern European admixture in Southern Europe:

Southern Italy = 7.14%
Southern Spain = 26.3%
Northern Italy = 31.25%
Northern Spain = 53.49%

Which calls for a revision of any alleged claims of significant Northern European element in Northern Italy.

Or perhaps for the creation of a "Liga Norte"?

[Kernunnos]

We Northern Italians are mostly cognate to the french.

That's why we don't look or test nordid, we are not, even if a 30% of population show germanic characters.

It is sufficient to take a stroll in our uninvaded rural areas to see.


Only a few net nuts have tried to create the idea that NI is a langbarten.

On the contrary the study of northern italian languages (see geoffrey Hull) has identified above the La Spezia - Rimini line a consistent romance streak that he has called padanese.

Certain brescian and bergamo dialects show the s turned into h phenomenon, a phenomenon existing in the breton language.

Language analisis is a powerful scientific tool.

Genetics is at its beginning, while, as it is noticed, this study doesn't analize the french area.

This is G.Hull's thesis on padan.org, sorry but I only have the italian text

http://www.padan.org/padan/contentid-7.html

G. Hull is a faculty professor at the University of Sidney.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Breha

We Northern Italians are mostly cognate to the french.

NW Italians. But what about the rest?

Anyway, the Romans called it the Gallia Cisalpina.

That's why we don't look or test nordid, we are not, even if a 30% of population show germanic characters.

It is sufficient to take a stroll in our uninvaded rural areas to see.

Only a few net nuts have tried to create the idea that NI is a langbarten.

Nazi idiocy has trespassed the border of its place of origin.

On the contrary the study of northern italian languages (see geoffrey Hull) has identified above the La Spezia - Rimini line a consistent romance streak that he has called padanese.

Certain brescian and bergamo dialects show the s turned into h phenomenon, a phenomenon existing in the breton language.

Interesting. Aspired /h/ sound?

Genetics is at its beginning, while, as it is noticed, this study doesn't analize the french area.

I still have to see a genetic study of France by regions. Should be interesting.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I still have to see a genetic study of France by regions. Should be interesting.

So do I. We can still postpone indefinitely, I think.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

NW Italians. But what about the rest?

Anyway, the Romans called it the Gallia Cisalpina.

Nazi idiocy has trespassed the border of its place of origin.

Interesting. Aspired /h/ sound?

I still have to see a genetic study of France by regions. Should be interesting.

Aspired h is found in the same Valley of the famous graffiti, Valle Camonica.
Interestingly enough one of the divinities depicted on the graffiti is Kernunnos, the horned celtic god, carring a torquis.

Archeologists have found also evidence of contacts with Halstatt kelts.