HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

[NatVox]

HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

Authors' affiliations:A. Arnaiz-Villena^1,*, K. Dimitroski^2,*, A. Pacho¹, J. Moscoso¹, E. Gómez-Casado¹, C. Silvera-Redondo¹, P. Varela¹, M. Blagoevska², V. Zdravkovska², J. Martínez-Laso¹


Abstract: HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.


[source]

[Zrinski]

Greeks and Ethiopians?

[Awar]

It's outdated HLA studies. If I remember correctly, it shows that Northern Greeks
are more "sub-Saharan" ( whatever that is ) than Southern Greeks. ( because N.Greeks blood has a mutation which adapts them to malaria, and they conveniently forget to mention that parts of N.Greece have always been malaric areas ).

[NatVox]

Outdated by which other study?

There is more than a simple convenient oblivion in the text:
"Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans"

[Awar]

By mtDNA and Y studies of course.

HLA is Human Leukocite Antigene,
it adapts to the surroundings, thus, all HLA researches had anomalous
results, like this one ( showing that Greeks aren't European ), or the one where
Japanese clustered with S.Africans, Icelanders clustered with Congoans etc. etc.

[Awar]

Here's a link about this study.
It's said the study was dropped altogether:
http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/blog/...es/000223.html

[NatVox]

Really? Because on Dieneke's page there is another study which states that "Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans ..."?

And surely, if the paper had been dropped it would show with the publishers, as it is always the case.

[Ebusitanus]

Is that this Sicle cell anemia thing?

[NatVox]

This is a hypothesis article published 6 months later on the issue.

Population genetic relationships between Mediterranean populations determined by HLA allele distribution and a historic perspective

A. Arnaiz-Villena, E. Gomez-Casado, J. Martinez-Laso

Abstract: HLA genes allele distribution has been studied in Mediterranean and sub-Saharan populations. Their relatedness has been tested by genetic distances, neighbour-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The population genetic relationships have been compared with the history of the classical populations living in the area. A revision of the historic postulates would have to be undertaken, particularly in the cases when genetics and history are overtly discordant. HLA genomics shows that: 1) Greeks share an important part of their genetic pool with sub-Saharan Africans (Ethiopians and west Africans) also supported by Chr 7 Markers. The gene flow from Black Africa to Greece may have occurred in Pharaonic times or when Saharan people emigrated after the present hyperarid conditions were established (5000 years B.C.). 2) Turks (Anatolians) do not significantly differ from other Mediterraneans, indicating that while the Asians Turks carried out an invasion with cultural significance (language), it is not genetically detectable. 3) Kurds and Armenians are genetically very close to Turks and other Middle East populations. 4) There is no HLA genetic trace of the so called Aryan invasion, which has only been defined on doubtful linguistic bases. 5) Iberians, including Basques, are related to north-African Berbers. 6) Present-day Algerian and Moroccan urban and country people show an indistinguishable Berber HLA profile.


[source]

[Zrinski]

Sub-saharan = E3b haplogroup?

[Awar]

Mynydd... it's because of malaria adaptation. Sickle cell anemia appears in Northern Greece where malaria is present, while it's absent in Southern Greece.

The mtDNA and Y-lineages show a completely different picture, history does also, thus, the HLA is interesting, but not even nearly definitive.

Similar thing appears with the 'Aryan invasion', which is confirmed by haplogroup studies, which don't mutate or change nearly as quickly as HLA seems to.

[Awar]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

Sub-saharan = E3b haplogroup?

Yep, as a result of Neolithic agricultural expansion,
there are millions of N.Africans and East Africans which inherited this middle-eastern originated HG.

Though of different subclades, indicating a split around 12.000 years ago.

You can also check out about E3b1 and it's close relative, the hg I1b
on a multitude of places on the internet.

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

Similar thing appears with the 'Aryan invasion', which is confirmed by haplogroup studies, which don't mutate or change nearly as quickly as HLA seems to.

Which studies are you referring to?

[Awar]

The studies which show the higher castes of India clustering with E.Europeans, and being distant from lower castes.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Awar

You can also check out about E3b1 and it's close relative, the hg I1b
on a multitude of places on the internet.

I haplogroup/mutation originated in Europe thus it is excpliticly European haplogroup/marker...I don't see how can they be closely related...the same could be said about relation of I and R haplgroup...the distance is similar to that between I and E.

[Awar]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

I haplogroup/mutation originated in Europe thus it is excpliticly European haplogroup/marker...I don't see how can they be closely related...the same could be said about relation of I and R haplgroup...the distance is similar to that between I and E.

I1b and E3b1 are from the same root, and the difference is in several haplotypes. I don't remember exactly, but out of 43 ht's, only a few of mine were different from I1b, while virtually all were distinct from R results.

I, J, G and E are kin, while R is closer to N and K.

[Carnyx]

Arthur Kemp love the sickle cell, it's convenient for him. But it's not a reliable marker.