HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Rusalka

You mean like Papua New Guineans? Far East=China, Japan, Korea etc. Far South East=Papua New Guinea, Australia, New Zealand?

Apparently we are both right..

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Apparently we are both right..

[Bulair]

They still eat people in New Guinea.

[Gil]

Originally Posted by Bulair

They still eat people in New Guinea.

So do we, but we call it "consensual sex" and usually males "eat" females and viceversa. Cutlery is nevertheless optional and depends on what your pain threshold is....

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Manji

So do we, but we call it "consensual sex" and usually males "eat" females and viceversa. Cutlery is nevertheless optional and depends on what your pain threshold is....

Cutlery? Why make use of cutlery when you can use your nails and teeth? Cutlery is for wimps, I say.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Awar

Actually, it's closest to J.

Actually it's not. It's equally related to R as it is to J. They all evolved from the saem mutation...unlike E3b which evolved from totally other mutation.

The point is...R and I haplgorups are autochtonous European markers, E, J, G, N, etc. are not thus E and I cannot be closely related to each other more than R and I are.

[Gil]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

Actually it's not. It's equally related to R as it is to J. They all evolved from the saem mutation...unlike E3b which evolved from totally other mutation.

The point is...R and I haplgorups are autochtonous European markers, E, J, G, N, etc. are not thus E and I cannot be closely related to each other more than R and I are.

Huh? All haplogroups came from the Middle East/Africa, so there are no "autochtonous" haplogroups. What you can say is that, for example, R and I developed it's differentiating mutations in Europe during the Ice Age (hence Paleolithic markers) while E, J, G, N, etc arrived only during the Neolithic period but to measure them in terms of "Europeaness"... well, they are on the same level. For example, the gravettian culture is considered "strictly European" yet the haplogroup usually associated with the expansion of that culture is the paleolithic/neolithic group I.
Haplogroups J and J2 are also neolithic and are found in the whole of the Mediterranean area and are usually associated with Roman culture, even if it is a marker originating in nowadays Jericho.

Zrinski, I do understand your point and of course that paleolithic markers (R, I, etc) are more similar between themselves than with neolithic markers but nevertheless I just think "autochtonous" is badly employed here.

[Agrippa]

sickle cell

To use sickle cell alone is as reliable as using Lactose tolerance alone...
Both are rather adaptations than anything else, like in many cases, and are only of minor importance if comparing very specific ethnic groups with or without it.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Manji

Huh? All haplogroups came from the Middle East/Africa, so there are no "autochtonous" haplogroups.

No they didn't. You are confusing things.

What you can say is that, for example, R and I developed it's differentiating mutations in Europe during the Ice Age (hence Paleolithic markers) while E, J, G, N, etc arrived only during the Neolithic period but to measure them in terms of "Europeaness"... well, they are on the same level.

There are no levels. R and I are distinct European haplogroups, J, G, N and E are not....these evolved outside of Europe and are introduced in European through migration.

For example, the gravettian culture is considered "strictly European" yet the haplogroup usually associated with the expansion of that culture is the paleolithic/neolithic group I.
Haplogroups J and J2 are also neolithic and are found in the whole of the Mediterranean area and are usually associated with Roman culture, even if it is a marker originating in nowadays Jericho.

You are talking about totally different classification. Yes all haplgroups originate from the same place and from the same proto-haplogroup which can be associated with distinct proto-cultures but thats generally understood and is not a matter of debate here.

Zrinski, I do understand your point and of course that paleolithic markers (R, I, etc) are more similar between themselves than with neolithic markers but nevertheless I just think "autochtonous" is badly employed here.

I think you misunderstood the context in which I used the term "autochtonous".

[Archangelos]

Skopjean Lies...

[Awar]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

No they didn't. You are confusing things.

Nope. You're confusing things.

There are no levels. R and I are distinct European haplogroups, J, G, N and E are not....these evolved outside of Europe and are introduced in European through migration.

Nope. R haplogroups evolved in Central Asia. The haplogroup R1b is still very much common in pockets all around Eurasia and Central Asia.

Haplogroup I evolved in the Middle East, just like J, G and E.

You are talking about totally different classification. Yes all haplgroups originate from the same place and from the same proto-haplogroup which can be associated with distinct proto-cultures but thats generally understood and is not a matter of debate here.

You mentioned which of the hg's are distinctly European, and none of them really are.

I think you misunderstood the context in which I used the term "autochtonous".

You're just saying "autochtonous" because you like the sound of it.
The fact is that over 99% of European Y chromosomes are there since prehistoric times.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Archangelos

Skopjean Lies...

LOL

[Menydh]

Alkman's rant moved to C.O.: http://forum.stirpes.net/showthread.php?p=51360

[Archangelos]

You actually believe what the Skopjean say.

[Breogan]

About sickle cell controversies:

http://www.geocities.com/racial_reality/sicklecell.html

[Gil]

The sickle cell theory, like Agrppa said, makes as much sense as the lactose intolerance theory: nothing. Like skin pigmentation and to some degree cranial shape, these are traits which are inherited but also highly adaptive.

[Zrinski]

@Awar ->

I and R haplgroups evolved in Europe. The fact there are pockets of R in Central Asia is the fact these people migrated there....I am sure you heard about Aryans conqeuring India.